Alternate Appearance Bugs

[RyanMakara]

Imo breaking the lore intentionally might be actually a good way to beg for a C&D letter from GW.

As we progress through the age of reckoning many of us become heroes in our own right, developing stories as to why or how we have aquired the magical items we have, it is because of this, I don't see any problem with taking liberties customizing your appearence as I would customize my miniatures (remember converting is a huge part of the hobby).

A greatweapon counts as a hand weapon as soon as you give it a magical bonus, so a witch hunter running around with a greatweapon seems less silly. The fact that Sword Masters and Black guard use shields bothers me way more then a hero character such as a WH running around with a great weapon.

In the same sense you can argue that the lack of certain weapons for certain classes is lore-breaking. Witch Hunters use more than a pistol and rapier in the Warhammer fantasy universe; they use crossbows, hatchets and greatswords in Vermintide for example. Other instances include clubs for Goblins, bows for Orcs and dual wield daggers for High Elf warriors. Some of the NPCs are seen using these weapons, and were not used to preserve class archetype in Warhammer Online's PvP construct. Yet, I do not see as to why alternate appearance is such a huge issue, if it mostly in convenes classes lacking the animations for them due to the lack of coding actually needed for these classes.

[RyanMakara]

There are some cases where "nonstandard appearances" can be good for flavor, and others where they can present more of a problem. It's a fine line, and there's no standard for it - we can't just mix certain classes. A Swordmaster might enjoy using a Shadow Warrior's shoulders for example, getting the bandana mask, or a White Lion's breastplate, but giving them the appearance of a 2H axe is problematic, as is giving them access to the White Lion shoulders, or Archmage robes, etc.

There are some appearances that will be fixed as they are discovered, and some that are allowed to remain. In the far, distant future I would like to have a system for acquiring appearance-only gear, some shareable between classes, specifically selected to not be overly confusing or lore-breaking. Maybe purchasable for tokens in T4 or something, we'll see.

There are already tokens assigned to the purchase of special appearance. These Long Forgotten-tokens are seen in Altdorf/IC appearance shops, for gear that's already wearable at level 10, yet they'd be reserved for the end-game tier to be obtained? Seems unnecessary, since the Khorne Chosen armor has a level 27 requirement. other examples include the Hammerer gear (level 30) for Ironbreakers/Slayers, Dwarf Miner and bartender gear (level 10) and Imperial hats for the Empire (level 25 if I recall).

Making these items accessible from the tier they belong in would probably encourage character development a lot more, rather than only making them obtainable in the end-game tier. Of course the token introduction for Bestial tokens (trophies) and Long-Forgotten tokens (alt appearance) can be delayed until T4 due to priority listing by the devs, but I would insist on making these tokens obtainable from level 10 and up, in every part of the world. Be they PvE quests, player drops, or even tedious Tome Unlocks.

If we're going to argue armor appearance for tiers, I'd like to point out that the Level 29-31 PvE gear has T4 appearances. There's even pieces that have Invader appearance on them (belts from the T3 lair boss for example.) I personally hope these won't have to be fixed either, since we'll be stuck in T3 for a while. I know that the Marshthum Bladestoppa had its appearance altered to a regular shield over the T3 Choppa appearance since it doesn't belong in that tier and makes Black Orcs look like actual T3 Choppas now, but the difference between T3 and T4 in gears is only by a few levels, and still grant all-around better and diverse looks that people would hate having taken away from them. As long as they're class-specific, I'd hate having to see them removed from T3.

[Genisaurus]

There are some cases where "nonstandard appearances" can be good for flavor, and others where they can present more of a problem. It's a fine line, and there's no standard for it - we can't just mix certain classes. A Swordmaster might enjoy using a Shadow Warrior's shoulders for example, getting the bandana mask, or a White Lion's breastplate, but giving them the appearance of a 2H axe is problematic, as is giving them access to the White Lion shoulders, or Archmage robes, etc.

There are some appearances that will be fixed as they are discovered, and some that are allowed to remain. In the far, distant future I would like to have a system for acquiring appearance-only gear, some shareable between classes, specifically selected to not be overly confusing or lore-breaking. Maybe purchasable for tokens in T4 or something, we'll see.

These Long Forgotten-tokens seen in Altdorf/IC appearance shops are reserved to T4 only? Seems unnecessary since the Khorne CHosen armor has a level 27 requirement. other examples include the Hammerer gear (level 30) for Ironbreakers/Slayers, Dwarf Miner and bartender gear (level 10) and Imperial hats for the Empire (level 25 if I recall).

Making these items accessible from the tier they belong in would probably encourage character development a lot more, rather than only making them obtainable in the end-game tier. Of course the token introduction for Bestial tokens (trophies) and Long-Forgotten tokens (alt appearance) can be delayed until T4 due to priority listing by the devs, but I would insist on making these tokens obtainable from level 10 and up, in every part of the world. Be they PvE quests, player drops, or even tedious Tome Unlocks.

Long-Forgotten Tokens were something Dana did before I joined the staff. I'm not entirely sure what the intention or mechanic around them was, but it's highly likely that they were implemented as the devs were playing with ideas for how to approach the appearance issue. AFAIK there is currently no way to accrue those tokens implemented, nor is there one planned at the moment. To the latter point, it's likely that the whole system was put down until it could be more completely fleshed out. Someday we'll get back around to them, it's just a matter of shifting priorities and roadblocks.

Maybe, if you ask nicely enough and maybe do a little dance, I won't make you PvE for them

[Gobtar]

I agree with Geni, there are some combinations of appearences that do not match the aesthetic of Warhammer. I am at the moment enjoying a two handed axe on my marauder, the animations are a lot more visceral and satisfying, and loreful

[RyanMakara]

Long-Forgotten Tokens were something Dana did before I joined the staff. I'm not entirely sure what the intention or mechanic around them was, but it's highly likely that they were implemented as the devs were playing with ideas for how to approach the appearance issue. AFAIK there is currently no way to accrue those tokens implemented, nor is there one planned at the moment. To the latter point, it's likely that the whole system was put down until it could be more completely fleshed out. Someday we'll get back around to them, it's just a matter of shifting priorities and roadblocks.

Maybe, if you ask nicely enough and maybe do a little dance, I won't make you PvE for them

I've been nerve-wrackingly impatient for the implementation of these tokens and the rest of the Destruction special appearance shops ever since the forum thread about it went up, somewhere around the start of T2! I'd even love to go around and point out various PvE tome unlocks I remember from live that awarded Bestial tokens, which are currently broken. Anything to help the PvE focus in this lore-filled world of wonder for the benefit of 10 million dollar looks

And yeah, considering the best end-game gear in-game was awarded through the capital sieges, I'd suggest adding these tokens to special killcount quests. I don't mind doing either PvE or RvR for appearance; I actually prefer PvE myself. Yet, giving people both options might be a little more liberating, although I'd always incencitise people to go out and explore this beautiful, somewhat buggy PvE world we have. I was already super gleeful when I noticed the trains in Black Fire Pass were functional and riding around the hills; going train-spotting with your Orc character is the best.

[Evildoor]

I don't see any reason how this feature can be harmful:
1) Deceiving enemies by showing 2hander as a SnB tank or whatever - if this is a problem (and i doubt it), it should be solved by making appearance visible only to your side, not by fixing this. Why? Because it is not more unfair than displaying Militia items masking your real ones, and fixing this issue will do nothing with it. Not to mention that 2H tank can be loaded with armor/TOU/etc too, some def tanks used this on live to draw aggro from enemies.

2) Breaking the lore - please, ladies and gentlemen, have you ever considered this seriously? Mythic makes a game, in which they break (with GW consent, but still...) a lot of lore (overall alliances, DoKs, SMs with shields, WEs with stealth, etc, etc) in the process. Then game gets shut down. Then ROR is launched. Then some GW employee finds it and reports it to their bosses. Then the bosses call a meeting to discuss the problem. "Hmm, let's see... They use our game, but don't make any money... Fine... No problem at all... They moved SM/BO KDs around... OK... Wait a sec... WITCH HUNTER WITH A GREATSWORD??!! WHAAAAAT?! SHUTDOWN THESE BASTARDS NOW!"

3) Confusing items - depends on how confusing. So far i had no problems identifying WHs with 2Handers and BGs or BOs with duals. There was one bug on live which, IMO, deserved to be fixed, but that was a wrench for Engi which looked like huge (many meters high/wide) flag which could present real problems with targeting or something.

P.S. On live, there were series of Destro items in T4 which looked like Order ones - WL items for DoK, SW items for WE, etc. I don't believe that such series (concentrated in 1-2 chapters influence and 1 quest) were bugs and not intentional possibilities for unusual appearance.
P.P.S. There is a twohanded sword for WP. On live it was fixed. In ROR it is not. Can't wait for T4...

Update: i agree with posts above about Maras/WHs using greatsword in lore.

[magter3001]

There are some cases where "nonstandard appearances" can be good for flavor, and others where they can present more of a problem. It's a fine line, and there's no standard for it - we can't just mix certain classes. A Swordmaster might enjoy using a Shadow Warrior's shoulders for example, getting the bandana mask, or a White Lion's breastplate, but giving them the appearance of a 2H axe is problematic, as is giving them access to the White Lion shoulders, or Archmage robes, etc.

There are some appearances that will be fixed as they are discovered, and some that are allowed to remain. In the far, distant future I would like to have a system for acquiring appearance-only gear, some shareable between classes, specifically selected to not be overly confusing or lore-breaking. Maybe purchasable for tokens in T4 or something, we'll see.

So what you're saying is there's hope for my WE after all?

Spoiler:

P.P.S. There is a twohanded sword for WP. On live it was fixed. In ROR it is not. Can't wait for T4...

I had that in the early days though was kinda pointless since I was a heal specced WP

[Azarael]

I don't see any reason how this feature can be harmful:
1) Deceiving enemies by showing 2hander as a SnB tank or whatever - if this is a problem (and i doubt it), it should be solved by making appearance visible only to your side, not by fixing this. Why? Because it is not more unfair than displaying Militia items masking your real ones, and fixing this issue will do nothing with it. Not to mention that 2H tank can be loaded with armor/TOU/etc too, some def tanks used this on live to draw aggro from enemies.

The animation sets are linked to the weapon in use. I for one would prefer that this be fixed as it was on live.

[Evildoor]

I don't see any reason how this feature can be harmful:
1) Deceiving enemies by showing 2hander as a SnB tank or whatever - if this is a problem (and i doubt it), it should be solved by making appearance visible only to your side, not by fixing this. Why? Because it is not more unfair than displaying Militia items masking your real ones, and fixing this issue will do nothing with it. Not to mention that 2H tank can be loaded with armor/TOU/etc too, some def tanks used this on live to draw aggro from enemies.

The animation sets are linked to the weapon in use. I for one would prefer that this be fixed as it was on live.

Uh, sure, they are linked. And what's the problem with that?

[Azarael]

If the game allows you to slot weapons of completely the wrong type, animations are no longer a reliable indicator of what opponents are casting.