Lets talk about pulls...

[kpihuss]

destro has 3 pulls , order has 2 pulls (and nerfed id with reduced range)

To expand on the answer:

Regarding Destro's 3 pulls:
1 requires no specialization (Marauder)
1 works with popular builds (Choppa)
1 requires specialization (Magus)

Regarding Order's 2 pulls:
1 requires specialization in Single Target (WL) and a pet that can die along the way. No useful on WBs
1 requires specialization in unpopular builds (Engi)

That is why Destro has such an impressive number of pulls, whereas Order barely has any.

You only have to look at sieges to see how Order is constantly being pulled out of or into the keep, while Destro rarely suffers from pulls.

[wildwindblows]

Mara pull much more easy to counter because it is possible to see the animation meanwhile wl send to pet but u cannot know when/who to pull + wl can do kd after pull which makes the pull even deadlier.
Also wanna add that mara pull started to be distrupted more often these days. If you wanna remove something remove wl's kd or pull.
st mara only have pull as cc. What do you want to happen?

[Florian90210]

destro has 3 pulls , order has 2 pulls (and nerfed id with reduced range)

To expand on the answer:

Regarding Destro's 3 pulls:
1 requires no specialization (Marauder)
1 works with popular builds (Choppa)
1 requires specialization (Magus)

Regarding Order's 2 pulls:
1 requires specialization in Single Target (WL) and a pet that can die along the way. No useful on WBs
1 requires specialization in unpopular builds (Engi)

That is why Destro has such an impressive number of pulls, whereas Order barely has any.

You only have to look at sieges to see how Order is constantly being pulled out of or into the keep, while Destro rarely suffers from pulls.

Maybe you also want to talk about why order has 3 ranged KD, while destro has only 1 and it's not really usable because it require disrupt trigger.

[kpihuss]

destro has 3 pulls , order has 2 pulls (and nerfed id with reduced range)

To expand on the answer:

Regarding Destro's 3 pulls:
1 requires no specialization (Marauder)
1 works with popular builds (Choppa)
1 requires specialization (Magus)

Regarding Order's 2 pulls:
1 requires specialization in Single Target (WL) and a pet that can die along the way. No useful on WBs
1 requires specialization in unpopular builds (Engi)

That is why Destro has such an impressive number of pulls, whereas Order barely has any.

You only have to look at sieges to see how Order is constantly being pulled out of or into the keep, while Destro rarely suffers from pulls.

Maybe you also want to talk about why order has 3 ranged KD, while destro has only 1 and it's not really usable because it require disrupt trigger.

You’re comparing completely different things with very different uses.

A ranged Knockdown (KD) might stop you from running away, but the distance between you and the enemy remains the same. Even if you get knocked down, you still die within your own lines and can be resurrected. Furthermore, if you’re retreating and get hit by a ranged KD, you still have a chance to get up and keep running.

Destro pulls, on the other hand, drag you out of formation and into the melee ball, where you die the moment you land. At keeps, they pull you outside—often glitching you into spots where you can't be resurrected—and cause you to constantly lose morale, either from dying or from having to spend it just to stay alive. If they pull you while you're retreating (and they will), you're dead, because you lose all the distance advantage you had. And that’s not even mentioning how easily they can pull you into areas with boiling oil...

Just look at the differences between a ranged KD and a pull.

Where do I sign to swap Order's 3 ranged KDs for Destro's 3 pulls? I'd gladly make that trade.

[FairWeather]

Some pulls are more useful than others, which is why certain classes abuse them and other just don´t bother.

• Mara pull is telegraphed. Anyone with working eyes can hide behind an object and avoid it. The marauder also needs to run after the target while they run away or it risks failing the pull. In the process they may be singled out and killed.

• Almost no Magus uses pulls. It s just a waste of dps

• Similarly, for engineers.

• Choppa pulls are totally random. Often enough you end up pulling a tank that simply ignores it and runs back to its team. You also need to be on the front line which means you get easily killed.

• The only class that can reliably use and cheese pulls is, unsurprisingly, the beloved WL. They can just send in their pet, which does not die as easily as some people try to say, and pull the target. You do not know if you are the target because, in a crowd, you cannot easily figure out who is getting targeted. The lion has no range, so the player just runs away to avoid being pulled themselves or sits comfortably in the back, which no other class can do.

[rorswar]

A successful pull into a WB or good 6-men is almost a guaranteed death.

A successful ranged KD is far from a guaranteed death.

[Ashoris]

Some pulls are more useful than others, which is why certain classes abuse them and other just don´t bother.

• Mara pull is telegraphed. Anyone with working eyes can hide behind an object and avoid it. The marauder also needs to run after the target while they run
  • The only class that can reliably use and cheese pulls is, unsurprisingly, the beloved WL. They can just send in their pet, which does not die as easily as some people try to say, and pull the target. You do not know if you are the target because, in a crowd, you cannot easily figure out who is getting targeted. The lion has no range, so the player just runs away to avoid being pulled themselves or sits comfortably in the back, which no other class can do.

Saying you havent played both classes without saying it !

[Bozzax]

Devs should log successful, interrupted, defended, and failed or avoided pulls (e.g., due to LoS or the target being dead, dead pet, immune) inc context (rvr, sc, solo, wb) for both realms, along with RKDs, jumps/teleports, KDs, and KBs by class and realm.

This would help end the endless ongoing circular debate and provide concrete data for balancing realms

[Shogun4138]

We have all been pulled. It sucks, but it is a mutual mechanic.

I'd say at the minimum, if pulled, knockdowns shouldn't work.

[kpihuss]

We have all been pulled. It sucks, but it is a mutual mechanic.

I'd say at the minimum, if pulled, knockdowns shouldn't work.

Yes, we agree that it is a mutual mechanic,

But it isn't as easily accessible to one side as it is to the other.