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Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

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fatelvis
Posts: 137

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#111 » Mon Sep 21, 2026 4:49 pm

The tactic that improves the life taps base heals by 50% and adds a heal tick to divine assault is called grace of sigmar. :)

Edit: As we have this already huge thread about grace or melee heal specs in general, some more QoL ideas (all mirrored on Dok somehow ofc):
- sigmars fist/vision should always buff you AND your friendly target (if you have one)
- prayer of devotions heal could be bigger, on being hit and/or without internal cooldown; a fully specced PoD is currently weaker than a half specced prayer of absolution and does not affect the 2nd party healer for example; also heals through PoD are not accounted towards the WP as far as I'm aware, while protection score caused by PoA is, right?
- united in prayer switched to be on being hit to be on par with blessing on grungni

Also some skill mechanic like summoning a stationary hostile pet like some kind of heretic (slave for dok) to beat on and heal your party when situation affords it could be a way to make the spec more versatile (in sieges for example).

fatelvis
Posts: 137

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#112 » Mon Sep 21, 2026 6:32 pm

kpihuss wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 12:49 pm Period: 04/09 to 07/09
You posted that time span before. ;O

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Panzerkasper
Posts: 623

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#113 » Mon Sep 21, 2026 9:58 pm

Ysaran wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 3:42 pm By Grace of Sigmar you mean "Sigmar's Grace", the skill that increases wounds to the whole party, right? Making the skill core wouldn't be unfair compared to DoK which doesn't have anything similar? As far as I know, destru as a whole doesn't have a similar skill
No, I meant "Grace of Sigmar"

Sigmar's Grace anyhow is included in every spec, Book/shield/Greathammer. Making this a baseline ability would change almost nothing to how things are now.

Oh and if you haven't noticed, this game is not perfectly mirrored. There is also a lot of strong stuff on destro hat order doesn't have, but this is not the thread for it.
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Elyrith
Posts: 11

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#114 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 6:55 am

Nameless wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 11:46 am

This is not true and never been.
Firstly shield wp/dok is ror creation so there is no live version parallel.
Secondly you go frontline do less heal than caster spec but do more pressure dmg. The intention to heal more than caster spec was never intended. The main idea were you do moderate healing and moderate dpsing but never more than respected true dps or heal spec ones. Jack of all trades, if u want more healing go salvation path
Our friend Kpi is deliberately ignoring the fact that a healer with a shield has greater survivability thanks to blocking and can assist allied DPS in dealing damage. So, we shouldn't stop him from whining. Just give his character a pet, a leap, and a 70% heal crit rate :lol:
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kpihuss
Posts: 345

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#115 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 9:43 am

Elyrith wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2026 6:55 am
Nameless wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 11:46 am

This is not true and never been.
Firstly shield wp/dok is ror creation so there is no live version parallel.
Secondly you go frontline do less heal than caster spec but do more pressure dmg. The intention to heal more than caster spec was never intended. The main idea were you do moderate healing and moderate dpsing but never more than respected true dps or heal spec ones. Jack of all trades, if u want more healing go salvation path
Our friend Kpi is deliberately ignoring the fact that a healer with a shield has greater survivability thanks to blocking and can assist allied DPS in dealing damage. So, we shouldn't stop him from whining. Just give his character a pet, a leap, and a 70% heal crit rate :lol:
Hi,

It seems you didn't read the original post, where I clearly stated that I ran the tests with approximately 50% block chance, and even then, I couldn't survive.

And no, I’m not a WE player looking for Pounce, infinite health regen, super-defense, and multiple smoke bombs to escape combat. I’m a shield-wielding WP player who just wants the class to actually work a bit.


Panzerkasper wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 1:22 pm So let's ignore the forum trolls who cleary have never played this class, nor have any idea whatsoever of what it can do and what not.


Anyhow... I played the Grace-WP quite a bit over the weekend with the new patch.
The buff to Sigmar's will was most welcome and overall you can say the heal output increased quite a bit.

Yet still in the aoe blob meta we have right now, I would still like to see Pious Restoration getting the same treatment as Healing Hand and scaling with str. That would relive a bit the pressure of keeping your grp alive and enable you a bit more to focus on some single target heal, without your grp dying left and right.

Also, I still think Grace of Sigmar should be a baseline buff when putting on a shield. Imagine a WL had to slot a tactic to play with pet, or Mara needs to slot a tactic to play a Mutation. A tactic should kind of drive a playstyle into a certain direction and not make a class actually playable.
I really don't like that "Pious Restoration" relies on the Strength stat. By the same way, I dislike that "Healing Hand" scales with Strength; I think that’s something they should remove. It feels like a way to patch "Grace" using "Salvation."

Personally, I don't think the Shield WP's abilities should have any casting time unless it's a life-tap or a self-drain effect that heals allies (like the old "Sacrifice"). In fact, "Benediction" doesn't make much sense to me in a shield build. It would be far better—and more in line with what a "life-taper" should be—if it were a group HoT (Heal over Time) proportional to damage dealt. It’s terrible that the utility of a "Grace" path ability is simply to buff a "Salvation" tree abilities.

Anyway, I'm writing a feedback post about the patch... you'll see all the details there :D
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fatelvis
Posts: 137

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#116 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 10:48 am

Elyrith wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2026 6:55 am Our friend Kpi is deliberately ignoring the fact that a healer with a shield has greater survivability thanks to blocking and can assist allied DPS in dealing damage. So, we shouldn't stop him from whining. Just give his character a pet, a leap, and a 70% heal crit rate :lol:
Not sure what you consider noteworthy dps assist but with softcap strength, high melee crit, 15 points in grace tree and divine fury slotted your physical grace abilities hit for between 200 and 350 on city constructs, DA slightly more due to spirit dmg. That's with gutting your heal proc values and neglecting your own survivability.
To be fair I didnt had the chance to try and go for a high WS built due to lack of crests, though I highly doubt you'll reach a value to reliably push your damage, life tap heal and survivability so that anyone will take that instead of an actual heal/dps.
The recent changes on this spec hint that it's supposed to rather heal than damage, though the values combined with the playstyle aren't quite on the level of the casting healers, so the requests for adjustments are not that hard to understand.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 1380

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#117 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 12:00 pm

Always nerfing DPS Wp/Dok every chance they get. " But you see, they buffed SHIELD healing which already has Grp Melee heal that builds resources so it would be pretty strong if they didnt nerf Da/Rend sould from 350% to 250% "

All of that is Bs. Come on RoR if you insist keeping the shield for these two classes, block Divine Assault/Rend Soul if you use shield and see what happens. This was done to Transfer Essence/Sigmars Radiance(they made it shield only) which killed their usefulness in Party, and this game seems to truely nerf all freedom and BE IN A PARTY mindset by removing 15% Dmg tactic for engi/magus and now its 10% and only for your party...

Its funny that everything needs to work in party except dps dok/wp. If you want to keep the shield, just bring the 25% Increased melee heals tactic back that also makes Ds/Consume essence hit 2 additional targets. This was great, but then you removed spiritual dmg from melee healing pretty much completely which is insane, truely insane.

Remove 1600 armour debuff and give us 700-800 armour debuff proc and spirit dmg back. Only Melee Heal that used to not be Spirit dmg was the grp melee heal, and this makes sense because it builds resourses=you are not just a waste of space for your team.

This new ability that uses 60-70 Resourses(and is only available to shield OFC) is just because you removed the 25% increased melee heal tactic+mini aoe spirit dmg heals...

Bring back the self damaging grp healing ability usable while moving. Sacrifice. And self refreshing absorb for 300dmg every 1s for all ranged dmg.

Why did you add Sigmars radiance/Transfer essence is now usable with TOME/CHALICE??? And shield ofc, but WHY i mean is this trying to cause anger/frustration, just trolling us? Now its usable with everything except 2h/dual wield, and that is where the original intent of this skill was : D

MELEE HEALER/LIFETAPPERS NEED TO DO DMG AND HEAL THROUGH THAT! And 90% needs to be magic dmg for obvious reasons, even though armour doesnt even mean anything anymore. Shield is so stupid handholding easymode idea that actually kind of worked, and you ROR'ed it meaning its too powerful we need to nerf every meaningful choice and thing that made it actually work in the first place. This always happens. I cant belive the state of this game
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Ysaran
Posts: 1394

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#118 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 9:35 pm

Panzerkasper wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 9:58 pm
Ysaran wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2026 3:42 pm By Grace of Sigmar you mean "Sigmar's Grace", the skill that increases wounds to the whole party, right? Making the skill core wouldn't be unfair compared to DoK which doesn't have anything similar? As far as I know, destru as a whole doesn't have a similar skill
No, I meant "Grace of Sigmar"

Sigmar's Grace anyhow is included in every spec, Book/shield/Greathammer. Making this a baseline ability would change almost nothing to how things are now.

Oh and if you haven't noticed, this game is not perfectly mirrored. There is also a lot of strong stuff on destro hat order doesn't have, but this is not the thread for it.
Thank you for clarifying. I disagree that making Sigmar's Grace core would change nothing , but that is beside the point.

I'm not against marking Grace of Sigmar (stupid name, btw) a component of the two skills (which names I don't remember), but I think that that would be unfair compared to every other healer in the game, even non-shield WP/DoK. All healer have a skill that heals a small amount and attach a HoT, and usually it costs a lot of AP/resources and it's never an AoE skill. Giving two similar skill to shield WP/DoK, two very used and core skill to the whole build, would be unfair. I think that making the AoE hot scale on str/melee crit would be much simpler
Zputa

Mvl130
Posts: 124

Re: Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

Post#119 » Tue Sep 22, 2026 9:52 pm

The spec remains incredibly fragile, a single knockdown is still sufficient to have your character being killed, and a bunch of rDps in scenarios just annihilate you

A Witch Hunter I have in a defensive set up is far more tough than my shield warrior-priest, despite not having block chances : the 7 second immunity to all magical damage, the 3sec invisibility to evade several enemies that are hard focusing you, the 15 second duration AoE detaunt, the mix of knockdown, silence, disarm and stagger, to prevent enemies from harming you, the morale 1 confusing movements ; even with a defensive set and renown points investment, you can deal decent sustained dps through spirit damage DoTs effects ; you have no burst, but enough survival to gradually eat the health of the enemy

As a shield warrior-priest, you have rng block chances that can be bypassed from flanking, a 5 second aoe detaunt, a silence, the morale 1 buff, a single target detaunt ; obviously you can self heal, but if under the effect of a control or not in range to hit the enemy, or heal debuff is being applied to you (outgoing + incoming eventually), your health drops dramatically ; you basically lack of a backup cooldown, and have nothing to protect yourself from range damage dealers, you're just a free target they can snare and punt while dotting and bursting while also running away from, it's impossible to compete

The amount of toughness you have is below 200, initiative is roughly at 200, you need 800+ str for your heals to have some impact, and you can no longer combine Divine Fury + Fanaticism for increased damage output and parry chances because of base heal ; since you can no longer increase crit and parry chances through Fanaticism, you have to obtain them from renown, meaning you end up with a rather high chance of being crit as you lack the renown points to invest in Futile Strikes ; if you go full Futile Strikes renown, you then end up with roughly 5% crit chances, which greatly undermines both offense and healing ability

The single target absorb you unlock as top ability from Grace tree remains very underwhelming, it only boosts your next Healing Hand, which is obviously not helpful when being bursted down, and doesn't feel relevant in its effect as something that should be the best Grace ability to unlock, it basically does not feel like a Grace ability at all, since it only benefits abilities that are outside that spec that do not scale off strength except for one. The absorb it provides is easily eaten by the enemy since they crit you a lot and you have low toughness

I really have no idea what was the point of the entire rework that has been made in early 2025, since hardly anything that was problematic regarding self-survival has been adressed. I might argue that it's even worse than it was because of the removal of the channel protecting you from range, and Fanaticism as I've said being unuseable, requiring crit and parry investment through renown points now which prevents you from investing these points into Futile Strikes/Deft Defender.
The only thing that has improved is the possibility to use Unstoppable Wrath. The newly added tactic in left tree, Divine Warding, obviously would have paired up very nicely with Fanaticism, but you can't do that because of base heal being affected by healing output

And if I want to slot Divine Fury to deal some assist damage, then I end up being somehow forced to slot Exalted Defenses to make up for the healing loss, meaning I only play with three tactics, which I fail to see how is this an improvement over how the spec used to be in terms of playability

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