Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

[kpihuss]

It's nice to see they are aware of shield WPs/Doks, though the only real buff were the extra 5 seconds on sigmars vision.
Those tiny increases on the melee hits base heals are insignificant considering healdebuffs. Would love to know how those values are calculated and decided, e.g. the extra 37hp heal on charged fury. Why not 25 or 50 or 200 extra hp. That would be a reason to slot it for party play at least.

Edit: checked again, as it is the extra proc on divine assault it might not be affected by heal debuffs. Though with the nerf on damage it might only be slightly more now where it was already underwhelming as snb WP. Should've kept the 350% life tap and increase the proc so wrath does not get gutted.

The extra proc on Divine Assault can heal debuffed... i just test it

[fatelvis]

It's nice to see they are aware of shield WPs/Doks, though the only real buff were the extra 5 seconds on sigmars vision.
Those tiny increases on the melee hits base heals are insignificant considering healdebuffs. Would love to know how those values are calculated and decided, e.g. the extra 37hp heal on charged fury. Why not 25 or 50 or 200 extra hp. That would be a reason to slot it for party play at least.

Edit: checked again, as it is the extra proc on divine assault it might not be affected by heal debuffs. Though with the nerf on damage it might only be slightly more now where it was already underwhelming as snb WP. Should've kept the 350% life tap and increase the proc so wrath does not get gutted.

The extra proc on Divine Assault can heal debuffed... i just test it

Well, rip DA then.

[wildwindblows]

shield wp and shield dok.
stop playing meme classes in pug sc.
play proper dps or healer class instead.

[Elyrith]

Am I understanding this correctly: the OP took a hybrid DPS/heal spec - designed for solo play and ultra-small-scale - into scenarios, and is now complaining that it heals less than a dedicated healer?
You might as well complain that a DPS KotBS deals less damage than a Slayer or a BW.

[kpihuss]

Am I understanding this correctly: the OP took a hybrid DPS/heal spec - designed for solo play and ultra-small-scale - into scenarios, and is now complaining that it heals less than a dedicated healer?
You might as well complain that a DPS KotBS deals less damage than a Slayer or a BW.

Hi,

It seems you don't quite understand how the shield-spec WP works.

A shield-spec WP is a healer, so it isn't designed for solo play.

At the same time, scenarios are considered small-scale content (6–12 players).

The shield spec has always been viewed this way: "I take on more risk by being on the front line, but I trade that risk for better heals than a caster-spec healer."

The problem was that, prior to this weekend's patch, you were trading that safety for lower healing output—dying more often and forcing your team to make significant sacrifices for you.

I don't want to discuss anything regarding the post-patch state just yet; I want to finish gathering data first.

[Nameless]

The shield spec has always been viewed this way: "I take on more risk by being on the front line, but I trade that risk for better heals than a caster-spec healer."

This is not true and never been.
Firstly shield wp/dok is ror creation so there is no live version parallel.
Secondly you go frontline do less heal than caster spec but do more pressure dmg. The intention to heal more than caster spec was never intended. The main idea were you do moderate healing and moderate dpsing but never more than respected true dps or heal spec ones. Jack of all trades, if u want more healing go salvation path

[kpihuss]

The shield spec has always been viewed this way: "I take on more risk by being on the front line, but I trade that risk for better heals than a caster-spec healer."

This is not true and never been.
Firstly shield wp/dok is ror creation so there is no live version parallel.
Secondly you go frontline do less heal than caster spec but do more pressure dmg. The intention to heal more than caster spec was never intended. The main idea were you do moderate healing and moderate dpsing but never more than respected true dps or heal spec ones. Jack of all trades, if u want more healing go salvation path

Wow, I'm sorry.

It's clear that you know far better than I do what my own perception of the Shield Warrior is, after I've played it for so many years.

[kpihuss]

Weekly Shield WP

Sample

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Period: 04/09 to 07/09

Global dataset:
Scenarios downloaded:        2,908
Scoreboard entries:         61,400
Sigmar's Will detections:      894
Scenarios with Shield WP:       374

Level 40 period-detected Shield WP:
Entries: 209
Players: 16

Strict same-scenario Sigmar's Will entries:
Entries: 81
Players: 13

After false-positive filters:
Entries: 75
Players: 12

Comparable entries vs Order healers before min-sample filter:
Entries:   71
Players:   12
Scenarios: 71

Minimum sample filter:

* Minimum 3 comparable SCs per player
* Removed: 4 entries
* Removed players: 4

Final comparable sample:
Entries:   67
Players:    8
Scenarios: 67

Filters used

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Shield WP healer/support entry:

* Level 40
* Warrior Priest
* Sigmar's Will damage confirmed inside the same scenario
* Healing > damage
* Damage >= 10% of healing
* Damage >= 10% of average active DPS damage in the same scenario
* Minimum 3 comparable SCs per player
  

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Removed after same-scenario Sigmar's Will check:
DPS-heavy entries, damage >= healing:             1
Low-damage healer entries, damage < 10% healing:  2
Low-damage entries, damage < 10% DPS average:     3

Entries excluded from healer-relative tables:
No other Order healer in the same SC:             4

Removed by minimum sample filter:
Players with fewer than 3 comparable SCs:         4
Entries removed by this filter:                   4

Comparison rules

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Order healer comparison:

* Only Order healers
* WP, AM, RP
* Shield WP entries excluded from the Order healer average
* Entries with no other Order healer are excluded from relative healer comparisons

DPS comparison:

* Level 40 active DPS in the same scenarios
  

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Heal%     = Shield WP Heal/min vs other Order healers
HealO%    = Shield WP Heal others/min vs other Order healers
ProtO%    = Shield WP protection to others vs other Order healers
ProtRecv% = Shield WP protection received vs other Order healers
Deaths%   = Shield WP deaths vs other Order healers
Dmg%      = Shield WP damage vs average active DPS
KillDmg%  = Shield WP kill damage vs average active DPS kill damage

Global result

All tables below use only the final comparable sample.

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SC  WP  RR    Win%   Heal/min  Heal%   HealO/min  HealO%
67   8  81.5  59.7%  14.42k    100.3%  10.83k     88.7%

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Dmg     Dmg%   KillDmg  KillDmg%  Kill%  Dmg/Heal
25.14k  39.4%  8.27k    36.4%     32.9%  26.9%

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ProtO/min  ProtO%  ProtRecv/min  ProtRecv%  Deaths  Deaths%  Res  SelfProt
1.70k      77.7%   2.62k         125.6%     1.2     106.4%   0.6  62.3%

By player

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Player        SC  RR    Win%    Heal/min  Heal%   HealO/min  HealO%
Mxxxxxxxx     14  84.0   50.0%  17.13k    121.0%  13.60k     109.2%
Pxxxxxxxxxxx  14  78.0   35.7%  17.13k    110.7%  13.00k     100.3%
Kxxxxx        12  85.0   66.7%  15.52k     98.1%  10.81k      79.4%
Cxxxxxx        8  76.6   75.0%  12.82k     74.1%  10.04k      65.3%
Rxxxxx         7  90.0  100.0%  15.09k    104.9%  11.22k      96.2%
Axxxxxxxxx     6  81.0   50.0%   6.64k    115.4%   4.60k      99.8%
Vxxxxx         3  80.0   66.7%  11.84k     80.4%   8.50k      73.7%
Gxxxxx         3  67.0   66.7%   5.58k     41.6%   3.82k      36.1%

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Player        Dmg     Dmg%   KillDmg  KillDmg%  ProtO%  ProtRecv%
Mxxxxxxxx     31.35k  51.7%   9.70k    55.5%    219.8%   232.9%
Pxxxxxxxxxxx  25.40k  33.1%   7.56k    29.4%     29.4%    84.2%
Kxxxxx        21.15k  34.8%   7.11k    31.0%     45.3%   138.4%
Cxxxxxx       19.98k  30.7%   6.26k    25.3%     72.8%   208.6%
Rxxxxx        21.19k  44.8%  10.40k    47.6%     86.5%    73.3%
Axxxxxxxxx    17.63k  43.1%   8.66k    37.1%     67.7%   240.1%
Vxxxxx        46.19k  66.6%  13.20k    49.9%    191.4%   101.3%
Gxxxxx        27.95k  26.0%   4.26k    17.7%     20.8%    13.7%

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Player        Deaths  Deaths%  Res
Mxxxxxxxx      0.9     92.3%   0.1
Pxxxxxxxxxxx   1.1     66.9%   1.1
Kxxxxx         1.2    107.7%   0.2
Cxxxxxx        1.6    146.1%   0.9
Rxxxxx         1.3    122.4%   0.7
Axxxxxxxxx     1.2    280.0%   0.2
Vxxxxx         2.0     97.3%   0.7
Gxxxxx         2.3    150.0%   0.7

By RR bracket

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RR     SC  WP  Win%    Heal/min  Heal%   HealO%
60-69   3   1   66.7%   5.58k     41.6%   36.1%
70-79  22   2   50.0%  15.57k     96.4%   86.1%
80-89  35   4   57.1%  14.33k    107.4%   93.3%
90+     7   1  100.0%  15.09k    104.9%   96.2%

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RR     Dmg%   KillDmg%  ProtO%  ProtRecv%  Deaths  Deaths%
60-69  26.0%   17.7%    20.8%    13.7%     2.3     150.0%
70-79  32.3%   27.9%    46.0%   111.5%     1.3      89.4%
80-89  46.1%   42.3%   107.8%   175.1%     1.1     112.5%
90+    44.8%   47.6%    86.5%    73.3%     1.3     122.4%

By scenario size

Small brackets should be read carefully.

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Players  SC  WP  Heal/min  Heal%   HealO%
12-17     7   5  15.15k    218.2%  207.7%
18-23    25   8  12.48k     79.9%   68.6%
24       17   4  18.12k     97.8%   82.6%
25-35    17   6  13.45k    117.7%  113.3%
36+       1   1  11.71k     80.7%   51.5%

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Players  Dmg%   KillDmg%  ProtO%  ProtRecv%  Deaths%
12-17    39.8%   44.5%     73.1%   80.1%      94.7%
18-23    35.9%   31.3%     68.2%  110.4%     103.0%
24       32.3%   25.6%     70.6%  148.6%     117.6%
25-35    54.4%   50.9%    118.6%  135.6%      84.8%
36+      29.3%   28.0%     72.1%  178.1%     500.0%

By number of Order healers

No 6+ Order-healer bracket remains in the final comparable sample.

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Order healers  SC  WP  Heal/min  Heal%   HealO%
<=3            56   8  14.15k     96.4%   85.0%
4-5            11   5  15.79k    123.5%  110.9%

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Order healers  Dmg%   KillDmg%  ProtO%  ProtRecv%  Deaths%
<=3            37.8%   35.3%     68.2%   118.7%    106.2%
4-5            46.2%   42.4%    129.5%   156.5%    107.7%

Short reading

After requiring at least 3 comparable SCs per player, the final sample is:

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Comparable Shield WP entries: 67
Players: 8
Scenarios: 67

The global result is:

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Winrate:                              59.7%

Heal/min vs other Order healers:     100.3%
Heal others/min vs Order healers:     88.7%

Damage vs average active DPS:         39.4%
Kill damage vs active DPS:            36.4%

Protection to others vs healers:      77.7%
Protection received vs healers:      125.6%
Deaths vs healers:                   106.4%

[Panzerkasper]

So let's ignore the forum trolls who cleary have never played this class, nor have any idea whatsoever of what it can do and what not.


Anyhow... I played the Grace-WP quite a bit over the weekend with the new patch.
The buff to Sigmar's will was most welcome and overall you can say the heal output increased quite a bit.

Yet still in the aoe blob meta we have right now, I would still like to see Pious Restoration getting the same treatment as Healing Hand and scaling with str. That would relive a bit the pressure of keeping your grp alive and enable you a bit more to focus on some single target heal, without your grp dying left and right.

Also, I still think Grace of Sigmar should be a baseline buff when putting on a shield. Imagine a WL had to slot a tactic to play with pet, or Mara needs to slot a tactic to play a Mutation. A tactic should kind of drive a playstyle into a certain direction and not make a class actually playable.

[Ysaran]

So let's ignore the forum trolls who cleary have never played this class, nor have any idea whatsoever of what it can do and what not.


Anyhow... I played the Grace-WP quite a bit over the weekend with the new patch.
The buff to Sigmar's will was most welcome and overall you can say the heal output increased quite a bit.

Yet still in the aoe blob meta we have right now, I would still like to see Pious Restoration getting the same treatment as Healing Hand and scaling with str. That would relive a bit the pressure of keeping your grp alive and enable you a bit more to focus on some single target heal, without your grp dying left and right.

Also, I still think Grace of Sigmar should be a baseline buff when putting on a shield. Imagine a WL had to slot a tactic to play with pet, or Mara needs to slot a tactic to play a Mutation. A tactic should kind of drive a playstyle into a certain direction and not make a class actually playable.

By Grace of Sigmar you mean "Sigmar's Grace", the skill that increases wounds to the whole party, right? Making the skill core wouldn't be unfair compared to DoK which doesn't have anything similar? As far as I know, destru as a whole doesn't have a similar skill