Grace WP Feedback

[Florian90210]

Shield spec was OP and got nerfed a bit, now it's fine. Don't start same song of IB's about OP self heal and call it balanced.

[Vance]

I agree with Kpihuss, and as I have posted this around in different topics I hope it will finally get picked up for rework.

My own pleasure was playing the Shield DoK, in comparison and this one has been hit even harder, bc no Exatled Defenses nor Leading the Prayer. So that percentage even less healoutput or sustainability.

The Heal Debuff change on lifetaps is very problematic. It does not affect the first part of the heal (the dmg component), but the second part (the base heal component). And this part is the one you rely on for healing, as you cant take dmg improving tactics or your heals get nerfed even more. (and you have almost no ArmorPen).

So either we need to rework this specc or revert it whole back to OG Dual Wield Heal or old Shield specc).

Offtopic: Taking HealDebuff as DoK is even worse, as you need to take a tactic slot for it, where as WP only needs a skill, so even less option for more heal if you want to add that.

Cheers
Leechking RR85

[nocturnalguest]

To be honest i do like current shield design (!). Maybe it could use some tweaks that will not increase its damage (or WPs surviveability, which is also not an option) but kinda simplify healing or increase it slighty, but design itself is imo perfect. As i see it, design is focused into mix of melee heals + casted heals under long proc + unique group wide big absorbs. Its very interesting playstyle, i've tried it and its not as dull and OP as book/chalice currently, but interactive, incredibly proactive, interesting gameplay which we definitely need more. Its overall effeciency&role in comparison of what you can replace it with along weights of efforts put+result are subjects for debates, i dont deny.

Before redesign ive used to attend and run 6v6 in derankers community and there was very strict rule for shield healers for reasons. They were greatly overtuned for 6v6, they've add too much additional damage, if team played good they were barely even counterable (it took way too much efforts from opposite team vs. how easy it was to be OP as shield healer bringing utility+damage+healing). Since introduction of shield spec their assist damage that was much greater then what 2h tanks could afford to bring was a big issue and back then, since the very beginning debates were happneing, i stood on a side of "greatly reduce their damage output (thankfully now done) but increase healing (debatable if done or if done correct) or bring something unique (focus on absorbs, its done already, check)" and was very glad that this vision prevailed.

All this 6v6 story is literally all the same applies into all smalescale. Recent tweaks made it as possible option to play in oRvR too, not meta, not super effective in comparison to optimized proper heal specs, but doable. Also few person experiment with hybrid playstyles, taking even MB/KR as shield which is also very interesting to track if it may result into something. tl;dr - believe would be more beneficial to talk about numbers, like OP posted spreadsheet and thinktank adjustments of technical matters rather then continue whining and ask for rollback.

[kpihuss]

To be honest i do like current shield design (!). Maybe it could use some tweaks that will not increase its damage (or WPs surviveability, which is also not an option) but kinda simplify healing or increase it slighty, but design itself is imo perfect. As i see it, design is focused into mix of melee heals + casted heals under long proc + unique group wide big absorbs. Its very interesting playstyle, i've tried it and its not as dull and OP as book/chalice currently, but interactive, incredibly proactive, interesting gameplay which we definitely need more. Its overall effeciency&role in comparison of what you can replace it with along weights of efforts put+result are subjects for debates, i dont deny.

Before redesign ive used to attend and run 6v6 in derankers community and there was very strict rule for shield healers for reasons. They were greatly overtuned for 6v6, they've add too much additional damage, if team played good they were barely even counterable (it took way too much efforts from opposite team vs. how easy it was to be OP as shield healer bringing utility+damage+healing). Since introduction of shield spec their assist damage that was much greater then what 2h tanks could afford to bring was a big issue and back then, since the very beginning debates were happneing, i stood on a side of "greatly reduce their damage output (thankfully now done) but increase healing (debatable if done or if done correct) or bring something unique (focus on absorbs, its done already, check)" and was very glad that this vision prevailed.

All this 6v6 story is literally all the same applies into all smalescale. Recent tweaks made it as possible option to play in oRvR too, not meta, not super effective in comparison to optimized proper heal specs, but doable. Also few person experiment with hybrid playstyles, taking even MB/KR as shield which is also very interesting to track if it may result into something. tl;dr - believe would be more beneficial to talk about numbers, like OP posted spreadsheet and thinktank adjustments of technical matters rather then continue whining and ask for rollback.

Nocturnalguest

I’ve been playing for a month since I came back to the game.

I haven’t seen any WP/DoK shield in SCs, roaming groups, PvE groups, or RvR warbands besides me.

Why? Because it’s not just sub-optimal or off-meta—it’s unplayable. Today I was playing SCs and doing single-target heals with Divine Assault for 600 per tick while hitting a guardless Choppa.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... f056b9feff

[nocturnalguest]

Nocturnalguest

I’ve been playing for a month since I came back to the game.

I haven’t seen any WP/DoK shield in SCs, roaming groups, PvE groups, or RvR warbands besides me.

Why? Because it’s not just sub-optimal or off-meta—it’s unplayable. Today I was playing SCs and doing single-target heals with Divine Assault for 600 per tick while hitting a guardless Choppa.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... f056b9feff

Yes, mate, ive read whole topic. As for PvE its still pretty much best possible option to go shield (ive ran as shield in PvE myself past rework, it works perfectly). As for smallscale, people will always go the path of least resistance, easiness and efficiency of current book/chalice is of no match, no doubt. I havent seen shield healers both sides en mass too. I despise with all possible disgust new 6v6 mechanic change (progressive wounds debuff) so havent done a single match once this one was introduced myself (and luckily have been long time MIA when it was introduced, for my own sanity and sake), but looking at killboard its obvious people dont run them there anymore too.

I dont argue its a good sign, nor i claim build doesnt need some smart adjustments. What i do claim is that i like current build design. And by this i mean its very interesting nature of focusing on absorbs and mixing lifetaps with occasional casted heal buffed by long proc. Engaging mechanics, many things to care about, interesting to play. I didnt claim its effective.

Still Im convinced it was way too strong for smallscale back then. Hard to play, yes, still it didnt outweighted its huge effeciency and it wasnt as hard as for example be toptier engi/magus in competetive environment so many did manage to perform on shield healers just fine.

Your spreadsheet looks very strange tho, i had no time to look closer into it and retest some things, but it looks kinda odd. I dont think shield WP/DoK need more damage or more surviveability, but probably could use some buffs to better fit some niche composition or playstyle. What if they get back lifetransfer drains they used to have? Or maybe even pair it with some unique ST absorb?

Currently they lack a special role to perform in a group. They are not easy to play, do slightly lower heal numbers then book/chalice, pretty much same surviveability all things (including range they are in) considered as book/chalice, and now do more or less typical assist damage of a 2h tank (who is not offensive focused).

[Kylashandra]

Both Shield WP and DoK are barely playable since healer patch, I also tried many things, and even in PVE where they used to shine, shield spec is barely worth playing anymore (although still consistant in the lower dungeons up to BS / HV).
I was also a huge grace / sacri lover and it's pretty sad to say that this spec is mostly dead atm.