DPS balance phase (community) survey

[Magusar]

I like the poll and filled it in. Results are kinda interesting.

My main concern with a poll like this is it sort of ignores the core identity of each class. For example, I see witch elf AoE damage is the most requested buff, but a witch elf isn't supposed to be an AoE class, it's core identity is as a single target stealth burst class.

I like that each class has (or is supposed to have....) a clear identity in terms of the role it performs and how it performs it. Homogenising things so that every has similar single target, aoe, survivability etc would be a lot less fun.

I like the poll and filled it in. Results are kinda interesting.

My main concern with a poll like this is it sort of ignores the core identity of each class. For example, I see witch elf AoE damage is the most requested buff, but a witch elf isn't supposed to be an AoE class, it's core identity is as a single target stealth burst class.

I like that each class has (or is supposed to have....) a clear identity in terms of the role it performs and how it performs it. Homogenising things so that every has similar single target, aoe, survivability etc would be a lot less fun.

I feel the same but the devs have stated numerous times that they feel oppositely and want every class to have viable aoe and ST builds available so that people can play in warbands without being kicked. So WH/WE, amongst others, will likely have a whole mastery tree butchered and turned in to some AoE build (which won't work already because of the basic design of the class) while losing some class identity and a currently ST flavored tree.

This game feels good and plays good because the classes are unique. Both in comparison to others and also their own mirrors. Each have their strengths, weaknesses, buffs, debuffs, utility, damage types (burst, sustained, grind, cleave, single target etc.) and niches where they perform well and fit in to specific group compositions. Outliers exist, naturally, where one class can be too good at multiple things simultaneously (like prenerf dual wield slayer being aoe/ST/cleave all in 1) but numerical changes are easily done and would suit better the health of the game rather than entire reworks with brand new custom abilities/tactics that are wildly imbalanced or nonsensical.

Homogenizing everything is probably one of the worst decisions that can be made in games like this where uniqueness and composition crafting are paramount to what makes the game great. Just look at what has happened with modern WoW where all classes were made to do largely the same things and everyone flocks in droves to private servers or even official releases of old patches to play the game before it was homogenized to death.

Thats right. One of the reasons why this game is so good is precisely the unique roles and specificity for each class. Despite the fact that in this regard the game has become worse lately.

[Magusar]

Thanks for a poll. I agree with most of the result. Except one, Range SH survivability should stay the same? Excuse me, what the hell?

Ranged class, has AoE MAJOR distance punt, ST punt or 7second 100% disrupt through morale, 4s disarm, 4s silence, 10 second 30% move speed increase, racial tactic move speed increase, AoE auto detaunt, self wounds buff on demand.

I just don't understand, in what world is that "normal" amount of escape/save tools? Every other range (heck, even most melee!) classes has less tools for saving his ass. And people claim WL survivability should be decreased. HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE LOL! Only medium armor and pounce. You wanna give WL light armor or something while being OK with rSH having billion save tools? Somebody explain please. I do believe WL damage should be tuned down (while other order AoE DPS should go up), but his survivability nerf would be stupid. On the other hand I think rSH AoE punt should't even be available to him in the first place. And ofc his pet damage nerf is long due.

Why not? Personally i think SH is very strong class, which is close to OP (and in some moments even OP, like rSH st dmg), whose too large population is held back by the too large population of the WLs, but i don't think they should to decrease their survability - their roll is a mobility kiter with good utility and medium st tunnel damage, which hard to stop (im talking about rSH). It's already pretty squishy. When it's their turn for a rework - personally I'd like to see their pet's damage reduced by 15% - 30% and their "RUN AWAY" back to a reasonable place in the ability tree or even a core version of this ability. Let kiters like rSH and rSW kite.

[Xameleon]

Why not? Personally i think SH is very strong class, which is close to OP (and in some moments even OP, like rSH st dmg), whose too large population is held back by the too large population of the WLs, but i don't think they should to decrease their survability - their roll is a mobility kiter with good utility and medium st tunnel damage, which hard to stop (im talking about rSH). It's already pretty squishy. When it's their turn for a rework - personally I'd like to see their pet's damage reduced by 15% - 30% and their "RUN AWAY" back to a reasonable place in the ability tree or even a core version of this ability. Let kiters like rSH and rSW kite.

I agree with you. Let kiters kite, SW has self punt, rSH has speed boost (2 of them even, should be 1 imo). But AoE long distance punt is just too much. -30% pet dmg, no AoE punt and WL nerf - that would be some steps in the right direction

[Murador]

You mean the tactic and run away - well its not like these are used a lot anymore after the nerf. Which long distance AoE Punt? Kaboom - where you need to go into squid but thats melee? That seems like a lot of nerfs for a spec that doesnt seem to overperform defensively.

[anstalt]

Squig herders are extremely squishy!

In order to get to high damage numbers, we need to stack a hell of a lot of weapon skill and balistic skill, ranged power too if you can get it. Renown points need to go into crit too, so we have nothing left over for defences.

This makes us into glass cannons. As such, yes, we can do a lot of damage, and we can do it at range. But as soon as you get us into melee, we drop very quickly. A white lion only has to look at us and we die! If a witch hunter jumps us, we're almost guaranteed to die. We only have 1 self heal, which involves eating our own squig and thus reducing our damage output.


It sucks when you die to a glass cannon. But please don't forget that glass cannons get their asses kicked regularly. Even in a group setting, glass cannons are extremely easy to kill! when im playing my healer, trying to keep a rsh alive is near impossible! You basically resign yourself to keeping them alive for 1 or 2 more GCD in the hopes they get a kill, and then you're gonna have to rez them.

[Cantharis]

While i do agree in some aspect, most of this survey purely personal and doesn't contemplate game plays and mechanics, it doesn't realize what will happen if they apply all this changes, to be honest its more like a cry post.

Devs need to take in consideration what would happen if they nerf all this "heavy requested" which doesn't speak for all the server, because most of the server doesn't even look at the forum. Secondly ppl can vote multiple times so the class that gives them more troubles can be nerfed if this is take in consideration.

Your class don't need to kill everything, you don't need to kill all things and be juggernaut, Nerfing one of the 3 options that are intended to be efficient will kill the sub class and no one will play it unless the one playing it is heavy lore minded, Example shield WP, no one play it anymore.

Also cant be take seriously because there is ppl that doesn't understand this simple fact, if a healer class want to use his dps spec, then is not a healer anymore, is a DPS class, but some ppl want all the spec variants in healer and tank class to be delete, and nerfing them unjustified contributes that. This is another reason why this survey is totally untrusted as a community desire.

[leftayparxoun]

Secondly ppl can vote multiple times so the class that gives them more troubles can be nerfed if this is take in consideration.

Nothing against the rest of your points and I agree generally, but to make a duplicate vote in this poll you'd have to log in with a different email. While that is possible, it is also a bit more effort than most people would be willing to make in order to "rig" such a poll. Especially since it was clearly stated to not be a request towards the balancing team but more so a way to see what people on the forum seem to think.

Not only that, but I also filtered for duplicate answers (and none came up).

[Murador]

Also cant be take seriously because there is ppl that doesn't understand this simple fact, if a healer class want to use his dps spec, then is not a healer anymore, is a DPS class, but some ppl want all the spec variants in healer and tank class to be delete, and nerfing them unjustified contributes that. This is another reason why this survey is totally untrusted as a community desire.

I doubt the devs will use this to decide on the balance changes. But it's still interesting to see what other people think even you might strongly disagree for some points. The votes ofc are biased by what you play - and what counters your favourite spec(s) - so class popularity has big impact on the vote aswell.

But I also think that most dps players dont like to get killed by dps healers as these tend to be strong in 1v1s .