[SL] why so unpopular?

[Sulorie]

Slayer aesthetic

*dwarf aesthetic, also known as midget aesthetic.

Something only a mother can love.

[Foxplay]

Let's see what you're complaining about. The devs have simply fulfilled the wish of all slayers by killing the class themselves with their patch that defies logic and common sense. Nowadays, you're more likely to come across flying unicorns than regular slayers. Mission accomplished.

Slayer oath fulfilled lol. Glad I got to play slayer while it was the all-in berzerker it should be, more glad I quit before it was nerfed.

-Slayerfox

[Nelly74]

Let's see what you're complaining about. The devs have simply fulfilled the wish of all slayers by killing the class themselves with their patch that defies logic and common sense. Nowadays, you're more likely to come across flying unicorns than regular slayers. Mission accomplished.

Slayer oath fulfilled lol. Glad I got to play slayer while it was the all-in berzerker it should be, more glad I quit before it was nerfed.

-Slayerfox

The Slayer is now closer to an asthmatic mussel than to a Gotrek Gurnisson, yes.Very good job Devs

[Sulorie]

Destro tanks can finally mitigate some guard damage and all hell breaks loose.

[Stimpz]

All the time they used variating arguments that in its essence would deem the Ability to be broken or unfair because it would negate specific defence values by 100%. And why? Because the Slayer was the one Class that provided a timed window of hard countering those almost immortal Tank Classes with a combination of Rampage and Retribution channel, who itself could be countered by the smallest interupting CC.

You made a nice and fair post with good arguments, but this small part scratches me in the wrong places.

negate specific defense values by 100% It sounds like it was no big deal, but we shouldn't forget that we talk about absolutly 0% block and parry. And the hardest part wasn't the direct damage against Tanks, no, they could stand it. It was that it bypassed the guard mechanism. You also, in addition to the normal AOE DMG, got the full DMG from your guard with also 0% chance of block or parry.

Also, to frame that destro tanks are immortal is something to debate for itself. It paints the picture that Destro had a wall of unkillable tanks and the only chance to win was to have a 100% chance of bypassing ALL their defense. I myself would argue that destro tanks are not inherently more durable than order tanks, but that would be a discussion for its own topic. The most important part is that all tanks have a functional guard, which is, in my opinion, one of the best abilities in the whole game. Before the rampage nerf, you couldn't say that for both factions.

[leftayparxoun]

The Slayer issue is a layered one, but I would also like to discuss something in Gunlinger's detailed comment.
I should state that I never played Slayer, so what I'll be saying here is more so my impression of the class' changes and of the community's reception to them.

Lets just sum it up. Slayer faced some serius agenda campaining in the recent years, that came from people that mostly just copied the complaints about it, without even understanding the reason behind the Ability in the first place. All that to achive that devs would give in to their calls to strike that class with a mayor nerf on a unique class Ability that had no direkt mirror they would have to worry about to be nerfed too.
All the time they used variating arguments that in its essence would deem the Ability to be broken or unfair because it would negate specific defence values by 100%. And why? Because the Slayer was the one Class that provided a timed window of hard countering those almost immortal Tank Classes with a combination of Rampage and Retribution channel, who itself could be countered by the smallest interrupting CC.

Attributing Slayer issues mainly to the Rampage change and claiming that those changes were a result of ''agenda campaigning'' are very wrong statements in my opinion.

• I will first address the ''campaigning'' argument. I did refer to the balance change that Rampage got on February 6th 2024 as a ''change'' and not a ''nerf''. That is because a lot of skilled Slayer players I've talked to still regard it as an overall buff and not a nerf. Regardless of that, here is the excerpt from that balance patch regarding Rampage:
  
  
  
  To my knowledge this is the only time that the balance team has used subjective writing and/or heated wordings like that (''long overdue'', ''obliterating any and all'') in post Ability Rework patchnotes. That goes to show that it wasn't just a decision influenced by community outcry, but was something that the team itself had strong opinions on, to say the least.
  As to why the community was campaigning against the old version, as the old saying goes ''Where there's smoke, there's fire''...

Now moving on to the first point; I don't believe that the current status of Slayer is really an tied to the Rampage change.

• Slayer was unfortunately the victim of a lot of unfortunate circumstances since the ability rework. Rampage was only the beginning.
  Inevitable Doom (ID), arguably Slayer's strongest tool (especially after the Rampage change) had been suffering from multiple bugs for months.
  The most major one that affected Slayer the most in warband environment was:
  https://bugs.returnofreckoning.com/view.php?id=21498
  That got fixed around mid to late March, 4 months after the Ability Rework and 1 and a half month after the Rampage change. The 2 (iirc) other bugs were fixed in the following months. By that point we were already deep in the proc META, which Slayers would have needed a properly working ID for. AOE White Lion was the reigning Order wb mdps by that point and that status would remain unquestionable until many patches later:
  
  The first blow, on March 11th 2024, happened with the change to procs not being affected by (non-gear) positive damage multipliers on this patch:
  viewtopic.php?f=42&t=52715. But it wasn't enough.
  
  On May 3rd 2024 we got the second nerf to the proc Meta in this patch viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53038 which introduced AOE radius decreases for mdps AOE skills and proc damage nerfs. But even that wasn't enough.
  
  On June 21st 2024 we got the final/latest nerf to proc META. That patch (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53335) included White Lion and Mara AOE channel hit frequency decreases. But it wasn't the only thing it brought along:
  
  
  
  This change, which was also mirrored to Choppa, happened in the exact same patch and while as the team states it mainly affected small scale builds, it still made it mandatory for Slayers/Choppas to slot in Accuracy/Extra Choppin' for wb builds.
  
  At that point in time Slayer had been in the gutter for around half a year and with ID getting fixed and the META transitioning from fast Time To Kill engagements to slower fights, Slayer just needed people to be somehow motivated to hop back on it. At that perfect (in my opinion) opportunity where White Lion had finally been toned down, instead of motivating people to play Slayer the patch instead introduced the above ''inelegant'' change/nerf.

While things have been slowly getting better (with Retribution gaining the direct damage portion back without Accuracy on the August 22nd patch) Slayer is still on his way to redemption as class and as a playerbase. Referring back to the June 21st balance team's comment, we should probably wait for the DPS balancing phase to see what becomes of them.

[Nelly74]

What’s most frustrating is the developers' lack of self-reflection regarding this class. The last patch was clearly a mistake, which happens to everyone, but instead of reconsidering their approach, they prefer to stick to a roadmap that is obviously flawed. Not only does the class no longer attract anyone and has become laughably useless, but it also increases the number of players switching to or creating ranged classes, which are already overly present. Nowadays, we only face Am, Sh, Sw, Sham, and a few Wl, who are fully capable of handling solo play or joining a warband without necessarily being a part of it because there's no need. The Rampage nerf might have been necessary, even if it was handled with a hatchet, but the last patch was simply a mistake regarding initiative. Maybe it's all part of a broader rework of DPS classes, but in that case, why the deafening silence?

[Kragg]

Attributing Slayer issues mainly to the Rampage change and claiming that those changes were a result of ''agenda campaigning'' are very wrong statements in my opinion.

He probely means the constant destro lobbying and outcries about it. As a fervant dwarf player, I am growing weary, after 10 years, about the way things are being run. From putting up invisable walls everywhere to the constant nerfing. Take Axeslam s example. BT ran a few warbands with ironbreakers and runepriests and morale gear on. Coordinated drop warband on M4, and it got just nerfed into the ground, for a niche racial warband. I mean, they nerfed range, damage, cone wide and added a timer. Four nerfs on a M4 ability by a warband that cant kill anything and is purely defensive. That is when I lost faith in the team.

[Sulorie]

What’s most frustrating is the developers' lack of self-reflection regarding this class. The last patch was clearly a mistake, which happens to everyone, but instead of reconsidering their approach, they prefer to stick to a roadmap that is obviously flawed. Not only does the class no longer attract anyone and has become laughably useless, but it also increases the number of players switching to or creating ranged classes, which are already overly present. Nowadays, we only face Am, Sh, Sw, Sham, and a few Wl, who are fully capable of handling solo play or joining a warband without necessarily being a part of it because there's no need. The Rampage nerf might have been necessary, even if it was handled with a hatchet, but the last patch was simply a mistake regarding initiative. Maybe it's all part of a broader rework of DPS classes, but in that case, why the deafening silence?

It was no mistake since you don't need 20+ % additional parry by increasing your offensive stats. At no time since the game exists you needed the extra parry to do your job as DD. You come here and call it a mistake, when you was never meant to have the extra defenses. Your defense it a group supporting you, you are the melee version of sorc/bw who need a group to fully utilize their class. There are group centric classes and those who are more self-reliant.

[Lion1986]

slayer fell out for being famouse due to aforementioned nerfs and fixes and also because slayer sets are the worst set ever seen in any mmorpg history.