Assault Shadow Warrior AoE Detaunt?

[Detangler]

Make self punt and shadowstep both do decent AoE damage. Make the SW a true melee/range hybrid bouncing in and out of melee range to work melee and short range DD the ideal rotation for doing damage.

I don't care how you balance damage, just make it fair. I just hope devs have the courage to do it!

[Ashoris]

SW is the easiest class to play today.
It has ridiculously high damage,
and absurd movement when using guerrilla warfare.

Just show me how a SW with Guerilla Warfare has ridicoulus high dmg while beeing easy to play, it does not work that way

Yes, SW can be easy to play,
yes, SW can have an high amount dmg
yes, SW can utilize guerilla warfare for movement speed .....BUT YOU ARE NEVER able to have all of it.

Ask the DEVs for logs, I have no way of proving it if you can't see it while playing. Or call Awbzz to show you. I've played a lot with SW myself and the problem with Guerrilla is that people think it's a useless tactic, because in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it, it will be useless.

so what you saying to me is: you know its not easy to do with guerilla warfare but for the sake of your post you ignored your knowledge and trolled a bit ?

[what63]

Make self punt and shadowstep both do decent AoE damage. Make the SW a true melee/range hybrid bouncing in and out of melee range to work melee and short range DD the ideal rotation for doing damage.

I don't care how you balance damage, just make it fair. I just hope devs have the courage to do it!

Pretty much how it worked back when the ranged spec wasn't overbuffed. Problem isn't that you can't do decent range damage and have a good ranged kit while being in melee spec, the problem is simply that there is no longer more damage while going into melee, because ranged aspect was buffed so badly.

Skirmish+scout = ranged support.

Skirmish+assault = hybrid melee/ranged, with killer burst in melee.

[saiho]

I can't believe it when I see posts like this, asking for something more for SW... this game is already completely broken, SW is the easiest class to play today. It has ridiculously high damage, and absurd movement when using guerrilla warfare.

You need to stop crying a little, look at the kill bourd and see how he's been stacking SW!

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/

The game (much like the world) doesn't work in absolutes.
All those SWs in the killboard are ranged Shadow Warriors. This post specifically discusses the assault (melee) SW spec and even proposes ways to ensure that the aSW changes don't affect the rSH spec.
While I myself don't play aSW at all, I will absolutely agree on that it needs (positive) changes. Hopefully, when the big DPS balance phase arrives, we'll also see proper attention given to it.

SW is doing very well as it is... In order to give it any further improvements, you need to remove something from what is already making it a meta today. If you give SW a better combination, you could simply break the game even more. SH stopped being a great class after the nerfs... today RA is unviable because it is in the same position as FEF, they removed KD... Anyway, I don't want to get into comparisons, but I think this crying is unnecessary.

I can't tell if you're meme posting or not, but ASW Is by far the worst DPS Class in the game at this very moment after its changes.

Ranged SW Remains good, but ASW is still dogass. You can change ASW Without affecting RSW so neither would contribute to the other being "overpowered" so even discussing guerilla tactic ranged SW in this thread is completely pointless

[Sever1n]

What i would like too see
1 fix swift into norma 3sec channel like wh and we have, without that 5 sec boost and casting dmg boost.
2fix shadowstep animation. Just make it like pounce leap+movespeed boost to negate bugs.
3 fix aoe ability. I dont even know why it needed with 20 sec cd.
4 aoe deatunt to survive blobs on assault on tactic without tactic. ASW lost TON of parry so its wont broke the game.
5 drop spirit dmg from crosscut, we are stacking ws and changing dmg type while von is actually debuffs this skill than bufs.
6 optional run away as SH have or antisnare, i tired to catch 1 snare in world of covenant of celerity autolose all ability to kite.
7 normal m2 drop like other dps have. Ambush in current state just lose to wings in utility, and its splitted to 3 sec 900 tics just bad for morale drops.
8 inflict fear rework. Really bad compared to other mdps.

[Mooselager]

Of course a player like Saiho would be here asking for MORE buffs to a overbalanced class.

The order faction has got to be the MOST rattiest group of players that I have seen in ANY MMORPG ever. The amount of tone-deaf crying is non-stop. It is either incredibly dishonest & selfish because it ultimately damages the community as a hole which has already been demonstrated and proven to happen as this game has shrunk over the years.
Or the individuals crying for buffs to order classes that are already overtuned are completely oblivious to the damage they do.


Just look at Saiho's latest dishonest attempt; complaining that because sw are the worst melee dps according to Saiho, sw's need a buff.

How about fixing Squig Herder pets first so Squig Herder's aren't completely handicapped by having a class mechanic that is unstable, that seems like a much pressing matter over giving buffs to a class that is already incredibly overplayed and it reflects.

It really is quite absurd.

As other users have stated, there is essentially no way of balancing & making melee combat for SW feasible because that would take away from the targeted direction that they want SW's to be the ultimate ranged ratters.

I do ultimately agree that SW's need to be revisited & reworked because melee SW's do not exist, seems pretty odd that something like that would be overlooked for so long, but once again, its the direction SW's went in, heavily leaned towards ranged fighting.

Once again, it is really kind of odd how a class that was designed to be hybrid has become full range...


P.S: Saiho Saying you can make changes to ASW without affecting RSH is a complete & utter lie. More dishonest narratives that only self to further alienate this game.

[Sever1n]

And here we go again, acusations, lies etc.

SW need utility balance. And it need its for years. When u play it u just feel that it lacks it. Devs made clear promise that all specs will be reworked and playable. Problem is time. Adapt or suffer, as usual. BTW from what i saw on event sc sw is total crap in any spec crap compared to cancelbot crew.

[saiho]

Of course a player like Saiho would be here asking for MORE buffs to a overbalanced class.

P.S: Saiho Saying you can make changes to ASW without affecting RSH is a complete & utter lie. More dishonest narratives that only self to further alienate this game.

Idk why you feel so attacked by me in particular, but it is funny how you say its a complete & utter lie, when on page 1 another poster already gave an example on how to buff ASW without affecting RSW.

By putting AoE Detaunt on Merciless Soldier tactic which requires 12 Points in assault tree, you effectively only buff ASW Because that tactic ONLY increases dmg of ASW Abilities.

There, a ranged SW cannot invest 12 points into Assault tree, and neither can they give up an entire tactic slot just to gain more dmg on assault abilities.


Atleast try to be a tad bit intellectual when coming out the gate so aggressively.

[what63]

Of course a player like Saiho would be here asking for MORE buffs to a overbalanced class.

P.S: Saiho Saying you can make changes to ASW without affecting RSH is a complete & utter lie. More dishonest narratives that only self to further alienate this game.

Idk why you feel so attacked by me in particular, but it is funny how you say its a complete & utter lie, when on page 1 another poster already gave an example on how to buff ASW without affecting RSW.

By putting AoE Detaunt on Merciless Soldier tactic which requires 12 Points in assault tree, you effectively only buff ASW Because that tactic ONLY increases dmg of ASW Abilities.

There, a ranged SW cannot invest 12 points into Assault tree, and neither can they give up an entire tactic slot just to gain more dmg on assault abilities.


Atleast try to be a tad bit intellectual when coming out the gate so aggressively.

There is no such thing as "only" ASW, this is part of the point I was trying to make earlier. If you are assault specced, you are still 90%+ of a skirmish SW on account of range tactic not being a thing and there in general just not being very much interesting stuff in the masteries or tactics, outside of things that greatly benefit all specs. Skirmish SW in fact has 0 mandatory tactics, only optional damage boosts here and there. Even taking Guerilla Training isn't a huge reach for RvR, your cost would be No Respite and melee KD. But then you also have the ability to take No Respite to begin with which also boosts skirmish damage.

The true opportunity cost paid here is ranged burst on account of the scout kit. This used to be a non-issue, and you mostly paid opportunity cost related to range and CC. It is now an issue because the scout kit is so strong and you don't need to pay for range anyways. Skirmish is great in its own right, it doesn't actually need the scout kit to function, the entire playstyle was effectively made core to the class more so than being a mastery spec. The path back to melee hybrid SW goes through scout being tuned away from pure frontloaded burst, but with how solid skirmish actually is in its own, there absolutely still needs to be opportunity cost to it if this were to happen. The proposed change would likely be enough to tip things over.

The biggest factor holding Assault back is the strength of ranged SW. And of coure, melee needs either tiny engagements or a group to even be a thing, so go figure why absolutely no one is actually even trying to pull anything off with it with how much easier it is to just do pewpew in a solo-trio or whatever slop you can get in the moment. There simply isn't a tangible gain in burst or killing power by going melee hybrid over pure range, outside of very specific more brawl oriented spaces with a group, and not because the melee kit lacks damage.

[saiho]

Of course a player like Saiho would be here asking for MORE buffs to a overbalanced class.

P.S: Saiho Saying you can make changes to ASW without affecting RSH is a complete & utter lie. More dishonest narratives that only self to further alienate this game.

Idk why you feel so attacked by me in particular, but it is funny how you say its a complete & utter lie, when on page 1 another poster already gave an example on how to buff ASW without affecting RSW.

By putting AoE Detaunt on Merciless Soldier tactic which requires 12 Points in assault tree, you effectively only buff ASW Because that tactic ONLY increases dmg of ASW Abilities.

There, a ranged SW cannot invest 12 points into Assault tree, and neither can they give up an entire tactic slot just to gain more dmg on assault abilities.


Atleast try to be a tad bit intellectual when coming out the gate so aggressively.

There is no such thing as "only" ASW, this is part of the point I was trying to make earlier. If you are assault specced, you are still 90%+ of a skirmish SW on account of range tactic not being a thing and there in general just not being very much interesting stuff in the masteries or tactics, outside of things that greatly benefit all specs. Skirmish SW in fact has 0 mandatory tactics, only optional damage boosts here and there. Even taking Guerilla Training isn't a huge reach for RvR, your cost would be No Respite and melee KD. But then you also have the ability to take No Respite to begin with which also boosts skirmish damage.

The true opportunity cost paid here is ranged burst on account of the scout kit. This used to be a non-issue, and you mostly paid opportunity cost related to range and CC. It is now an issue because the scout kit is so strong and you don't need to pay for range anyways. Skirmish is great in its own right, it doesn't actually need the scout kit to function, the entire playstyle was effectively made core to the class more so than being a mastery spec. The path back to melee hybrid SW goes through scout being tuned away from pure frontloaded burst, but with how solid skirmish actually is in its own, there absolutely still needs to be opportunity cost to it if this were to happen. The proposed change would likely be enough to tip things over.

The biggest factor holding Assault back is the strength of ranged SW. And of coure, melee needs either tiny engagements or a group to even be a thing, so go figure why absolutely no one is actually even trying to pull anything off with it with how much easier it is to just do pewpew in a solo-trio or whatever slop you can get in the moment. There simply isn't a tangible gain in burst or killing power by going melee hybrid over pure range, outside of very specific more brawl oriented spaces with a group, and not because the melee kit lacks damage.

I can tell that you must have limited experience with ASW, or even Skirmish SW for that matter.

The biggest factor holding ASW back is not the strength of Ranged SW. Its the fact that It has none of the tools it needs to function, it had more tools back then which actually made ASW meta. You had movement speed on Swift Slash, you had a ranged KD that didnt occupy the same skill as your takedown slow, it didnt require vengeance AND it was usable from Assault stance. Assault had far more tools back then, which has since been taken away and why ASW Is currently bad. Swift Slash is a dead skill, its DMG Doesnt warrant losing out on your Auto attack damage + other skills. It was used purely for utility movement speed, so you could run down Shamans with movement speed, or fleeing targets etc. Its a dead skill we dont use it. In Assault Stance you only functionally have 5 Abilities currently. Grim Slash, Crosscut, Brutal Assault & Draw blood & KD. (6 if you count Shadow Sting from Skirmish Tree)

It lacks an AOE Taunt, It lacks any form of movement speed buff (Anyone can literally just WALK away from you) It lacks a Slow break, meaning if youre ever slowed as an ASW youre effectively permanently crippled, and being Assault you will get slowed because you face every other melee class that has slows.

Now Skirmish on the other hand, is entirely relegated to an AOE Warband DPS dealer, that is all it does. It has incredibly poor single target damage, its an incredibly bad dueler vs other ranged targets. Loses every matchup unless youre playing scout, which Assault also does. Skirmish is acceptable versus melee, and assault is only good vs melee. Infact its so bad that every Scout high RR player like Awbzz, ONLY Swaps into Skirmish for Guerilla Tactic buff and literally use eagle eye IN that stance. Since you lose out on your silence and such. Its literlaly just a tactic bot stance you swap into till you can go back to Scout.

Any Magus, Ranged Squig Herder, Sorc etc will all DESTROY a Skirmish SW Without thinking twice due to your poor burst and lack of range. You ONLY Play Skirmish if you want to aoe in warbands with split tactic + flame arrow. Scout is, in its current state the only viable spec for anything outside of WB Play.

Assault is only playable with a guard and heal, even then it really is not that good. Sure you gain 3k armor, but you still lack an AOE Detaunt. So Shamans smoke you, sorcs smoke you, 2h chosens absolutely smoke you. Because youre a class sitting on literally 0 toughness, all you have is armor and wounds and no way to prevent damage when being trained by multiple targets due to lacking any form of aoe mitigation.