Look how they massacred my girl (Witch elf)

[Tanski]

This is in regard to group based play, a ST group in city/scs. Please dont turn this thread into a solo roaming arguement like every other we/wh post. I have recently come back to the game after a 2 year hiatus and did some testing.

Both Choppa/WE same gear sov/sent/triumph mix with bloodlord/fort weapon and str pots on city dummies. both about 950 str, but full ws talis

Witch elf - BE, TOB, FM, BF - full 5 stack ruthless assault channel on dummy with TOB proc - 700- 900 damage. I did not use increased pain because outside of coordinating with another dps with HD you will be needing BLB (HD).

Choppa - hit red, press furious choppin - over 900-950 damage per tick channel , was even using defensive im da biggest tactic.

I realize furious choppin is a longer CD but it does not require building to 5 stacks and waiting on tob proc like WE.

You forget a important point there, WE channel is 3s with a hit every 0.5second and Choppa channel is 5s with a hit every one second.

Yes, huge oversight by me! I dont know why I was thinking 6 ticks over 5 and 5 over 5. Still, carnage build still feels significantly weaker than it did in the past, in previous comment I posted numbers I remember hitting pre nerf 1.5 years ago.

Hopefully veterans like you are given a say in the upcoming rework, I am really not up to date as to who is making the final balance decisions.

[Zxul]

To summarize this stuff - you are wondering why you can't deal any damage after removing your mandatory dps tactic...

Ask choppa to not go into yellow/red - then he can be an opponent you deserve.

The crit dmg tactic isn't mandatory- it was never used in RA spec, including for that matter by WEs in ranked.

But, it's still supposed to be your best bet on increasing your own damage. Why would you hope to outdps full red choppa without using everything you can?

What makes you think its the best bet on increasing your own damage? Crit is both most expensive stat in game to raise, and the stat people most protect vs (FS, etc). In addition, WE doesn't has any buffs/ tactics to increase crit chance (unless you are counting m3 I guess, or 3.5% crit from init debuff) . In addition, going the tree which has the tactic means you have to give up either on 25% armor pen tactic + 120 ws self buff, or on heal debuff.

WE isn't a crit based class, except in 1 specific spec. Str/ws/melee power is a much better investment.

[Avernus]

What makes you think its the best bet on increasing your own damage? Crit is both most expensive stat in game to raise, and the stat people most protect vs (FS, etc). In addition, WE doesn't has any buffs/ tactics to increase crit chance (unless you are counting m3 I guess, or 3.5% crit from init debuff) . In addition, going the tree which has the tactic means you have to give up either on 25% armor pen tactic + 120 ws self buff, or on heal debuff.

WE isn't a crit based class, except in 1 specific spec. Str/ws/melee power is a much better investment.

I remember some funny moments during my duo playing sessions with my friend. One of those moments was when some WE tried to kill his heal AM. Some of them were not even worth a detaunt (no, they weren't some fresh 40 hobos...not all of them, anyway). I guess,now i know how they managed to do this.

[Zxul]

What makes you think its the best bet on increasing your own damage? Crit is both most expensive stat in game to raise, and the stat people most protect vs (FS, etc). In addition, WE doesn't has any buffs/ tactics to increase crit chance (unless you are counting m3 I guess, or 3.5% crit from init debuff) . In addition, going the tree which has the tactic means you have to give up either on 25% armor pen tactic + 120 ws self buff, or on heal debuff.

WE isn't a crit based class, except in 1 specific spec. Str/ws/melee power is a much better investment.

I remember some funny moments during my duo playing sessions with my friend. One of those moments was when some WE tried to kill his heal AM. Some of them were not even worth a detaunt (no, they weren't some fresh 40 hobos...not all of them, anyway). I guess,now i know how they managed to do this.

If it helps, during the time I played my WE actively I had some funny moments like having 3 order + keep first floor mobs on me, and still managing to solo kill that heal am I was after. With 0 crit. More so, from both having 80+ WE and knowing how the class is specced, I highly suspect that those WEs which you run into were specced about crit, instead of about much more useful things (like I mentioned str, ws, melee power, the +15% dmg x2 tactics, etc).

[Avernus]

If it helps, during the time I played my WE actively I had some funny moments like having 3 order + keep first floor mobs on me, and still managing to solo kill that heal am I was after. With 0 crit. More so, from both having 80+ WE and knowing how the class is specced, I highly suspect that those WEs which you run into were specced about crit, instead of about much more useful things (like I mentioned str, ws, melee power, the +15% dmg x2 tactics, etc).

Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not.

[Sever1n]

Its very hard to balance stats normaly on some dps atm. Basic builds suggests you go cap str and near 40%crit. But its simply dont work against 3-4 FS and high armor/deff rr. Its better just to stack WS thats work 100% than invest into crit.

I finded that my BAL build in ranked simply does zero pressure and normaly groups just chch×2 least protected target into death. WH/WE have ligth armor and near 8k wounds, u just die from pressure faster than u can build your own. Wich leads us back to WS staking+armpen tactic and nearly completely drop crit, and still we have problems with 8k hp coz its simply not enough to survive.

At the same time chopas/slay sit at 900/900 str/ws 9k wounds (+armor /wounds racials), deal x2 dmg in red, do unholy ammount dmg from autos, and can AoE dmg at same time (wich includes drop of challenges). Bam and we can see basilion chopsters and slays in top of ranked, and 1 WE that managed to adjust to reallity.

Fun part that among dps WL have probably biggest problems with armor cos tactic for arp only works on 2 aoe skills, while maras tactic work on every skill that need mutation, and maras have WS tactic in trees. Wich leaves lions only with crit patch (wich suffers from dead/bugged pet a lot, coz tactic works only with pet). But some people keep screaming how lions OP and should be nerfed.

WH/WE had that 50% armpentactic that allowed them enjoy benefits of high crit+huge lvl of penetration. WEs had corp dmg increaser (but they still scream how poor wes dont have finishers) , and WS buff from pierce armor on top. Wich resulted in their channels hiting like truck, and i dunno if witchbrew pop in every tick of channel. After nerf dmg droped and here we are, wes claiming they are dead class thats have only option to play troug AW, and have no finishers. But from my pont of view WH situation is far worse.

Devs in their dps rework should really focus on that every class can work with high armor, and boost defence strike trough coz tanks with 80%parry at this moment just toxic. Borks still have 5 sec cd 50% block channel, and how dps class chat dont have taunt and only near 14 strike trough from maxed str/bali should go trough 80-100 block? Tnx to nerfed rampage, festers, some destro tanks in sc just started abuse their immortality by glueing their asses on the walls and by doing nothing sedusing bad players waste time in trying to kill them.

Overall balance situation is bad, i dont really belive it will change, coz balance patches are taking long time to come (devs half of year of braindead warping and vanishing lion pet, really?), so only option is adjust to meta (if u can understand it) or suffer.

[Uchoo]

Huh?

(no Increased Pain, as implied by the combat log).

[Avernus]

Huh?

(no Increased Pain, as implied by the combat log).

Thats a lot of damage! You can outdps an offtank, thats for sure! As for real dps...unlikely.

[Krima]

The truth is, the nerf on Bleeding Edge/Blessed Blade was excessively severe. There seems to be a lack of real testing; whenever something is nerfed, it's nerfed into irrelevance. The armor penetration tactic was slashed by 50% of its effectiveness? Why not 20%? if stills op 25%, 30%.

Carnage build brought hope for so many WEs, it was the best spec to play with. RoR.builders - Witch Elf
Nobody wants to play meme AW+witchbrew build, its a completly joke and unfun build.

Carnage atm its mediocre DPS numbers. Ofc you can play something like this no KD
RoR.builders - Witch Elf
Without a 13pt finisher and a stun, just in order to do some dmg, completly waste.

[Sever1n]

Why not https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 41,9450&t= ? WEs dont need tri ring prock tnx to pierce. WH cant mimic that.