[Scenarios] Why Idle Hands won't achieve what you want & how to fix it

[Dackjanielz]

Yeah good luck crowbarring people to do what YOU want them to do.

Frankly i hope they kill the game off at this point, they will never learn.

Even when the game is dead they will blame anything else but themselves i'm sure.

[Phantasm]

OP suggestion is actually reasonable. Premades locked in spawn by other premade, can have a succesful push moment and turn the sc tide.

Pugs on other hand, can get some juicy kills to boost rps a bit and get a kill count for a weekend event.
For me its a WIN WIN.

Not a silly debuff - you go fight now or we will kick you - no suprise people hate it.

[akisnaakkeli]

Yeah good luck crowbarring people to do what YOU want them to do.

Frankly i hope they kill the game off at this point, they will never learn.

Even when the game is dead they will blame anything else but themselves i'm sure.

Yeah... Should do full reset to 1.4.8 or dying:/ Kicking the King of RoR AzA in 6-7yrs ago slow suffering started. But now there is Intvrbvllum cos they kicked him off, so slowly but surely=) Everything ive seen so far seems NICE+BRAVE+NEW+LOVETHIS

[dekadd]

Yai, SC is boring AF Playing in a small party (3+). At lvl 40, 99% of SC is 500-0 or 0-500. One fight and the losing team FF, waiting 11:
The result is:

- no fun
- no RR
- Losing side stops queuing, so no SC.

RoR is in a weird state, oRvR is a full blob, SC is just one-sided, and city 95% is full PVE.
I hope it is not the end of war

[georgehabadasher]

Just to clarify, there are indeed scenario matchmaking issues, which are being addressed in a separate thread here: viewtopic.php?t=52763

Thoughts about lack of healers, double premades, etc should go there, I'm sure Hazmy would love to hear the feedback.

It would have been better to address the matchmaking issues before adding the idle hands debuff or making significant changes to scenario mechanics. Your buff is an improvement over the current idle hands implementation, but it could be abused in certain circumstances. Several scenarios have objectives or paths to objectives very close to spawn points which could be affected by this change. In High Pass Cemetary, Sacellum Arena, Garden of Morr, The Ironclad, are some examples.

[Rotgut]

Uchoo's suggestions are great, my favorite part is what comes under "afterword". Anything that improves player agency or lets them feel strong is good.

Good game design tries to incentivize behavior, not force it, but forcing players to not give up is one of the exceptions to the rule. That in itself is fine, cuz you're trying to avoid frustration, as one player tilting and giving up can ruin a instanced fight for everybody else. But it has to be POSSIBLE to make a comeback.

As it is, since its literally impossible for pugs to beat a premade due to how this game is balanced, you're not avoiding frustration of the majority. You're just punishing pugs.

[Fenris78]

Adding bandaid fix (debuffs and such) over a flawed and nonfunctioning Matchmaking system is not a good idea.

The only reasonable way to fix MM, hopefully to a permanent solution, is to make it with mixed realms, exactly like Ranked match.

Add semi-visible numbers of people actually queuing (to get people queuing with needed archetypes), and launch the match as soon there is 4/4/4 in queue.

Assign priorities to people, i.e. the longer they are in the queue, the best chance they will be in the next match.

And play with mixed teams Destru + Order. It makes for fun and unusual combos, and actually allow people to play with regular 2/2/2 setups, instead of 50% tanks/healers or full dps only...

This idea already been suggested in another post, I guess it's the best solution to the actual problem, and it's also working in the currently Low-Pop situation RoR playerbase is suffering for years.


Otherwise, you will always face constant issues, like :
- Not enough archetype of needed type in a certain time of the day
- Overflow of a certain archetype at a given time, leading to very unbalanced setups
- Unbalanced realm population, leading to long waiting queue time, AND the above mentioned issues.

Only way to fix sc matchmaking is to flush everyone into a big pool, and pick mixed realms 2/2/2 setups for every side. The more players queuing on a certain archetype, the less sc pop for them, encouraging less played achetypes (usually healer on Order for instance) to be played, otherwise rewarding the few who are queuing by more scenarios to play.

[Uchoo]

I have further ideas to reduce the overall impact of group synergies (healing & guard as examples) while increasing individual player agency, trying to reduce the necessity of perfect group composition and giving individual players a stronger edge against premades.

However, I do feel this solution is the best short-term fix to the scenario problem while things like balance and matchmaking are addressed, and it will obviously hold value in the long term.

Yes, individual maps would have to be painted and considerations would have to be made on certain maps regarding objective location vs spawns.

[georgehabadasher]

Yes, individual maps would have to be painted and considerations would have to be made on certain maps regarding objective location vs spawns.

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure the dev team has the resources to give sufficient attention and testing to implementing your idea.

[Akalukz]

I will be honest here, this is a community issues as much as a dev issue. When premades intentionally set out to farm pugs over and over again and absolutely refuse to do the scenario objective. this is what you get. I called it when it started happening in NA times during scenarios, then during ORvR. now look at the state of both in NA.

Don't bastardize the pug/casual player, without them you will have about 100 players all on one side. Or Worse 150 players on the over populated side sitting in a keep or moving as a blob vs 24 players on the other side.