Patch Notes 06/02/2024

[ravezaar]

Agree completly with Detangler

[Ysaran]

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

[nocturnalguest]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter. Ill start from afar, but whole story in my pov is the following:
Tank channel change is normalization of dmg channels we've just had is very important and led to HB nerf. It had some sense to normalize imo (while a lot of people will not agree on this), i'd mention that while they were on it they didnt pay too much attention into mastery trees allocations for all those skill and this could be the matter of further finetuning (i do hope) if someone gathers enough reliable data and some proper proposals i guess, because i believe not considering it is oversight.
Word normalization is pretty important here as logic behind the nerf was as simple as - HB is outliner for each and every tank skill in game. We need to have things normalized. This perfectionism is the only driver for that change as i see it.
It was mentioned here by many that the change is pointless pretty much... world didnt crumble with it, but ranting here is more like expression of uncertanty that direction for balance in this regard is correct.
Where was never an option to properly check IBs dps/burst would love to see how those 20-30% of dmg loss from HB affects the general scheme. Shouldnt be very much, but what sadens me is that even if it would be kept the same it wouldnt anyhow disrupt overall balance, either for tanks or game as a whole.

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

Well yes, it has to be proven. Because its a loss of pretty important source for AP pump along being a 13 pointer and restrict you spec wise. But overally to say if its a buff or nerf we have to consider "party dmg with ap pump" vs "party dmg with +25% aa increase" vs. "consider party dmg with IB running GBF" with other things unchanged. I feel that the winner is ap pump.

[Gravord]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter.

It wasnt Zumos shot. Whole balance group makes proposals collectively which is further approved by developer assigned to be in charge of balance.
Not sure who is feeding you this fake info but i would considered vetting your sources a bit more before committing to such definitive statements when they arent true. Singling out one person to put a blame on is rather petty and doesnt contribute much to the debate either.
As for this silly debate that is going here, IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks. If thats still not enough dmg for your taste, you are free to roll a full time dps class if expecting a full time dps results.
As always, its ongoing process and nowhere near done.

[JohnnyWayne]

On the side note, everyone is talking about ability changes, and non is talking about Code of Conduct changes. There goes my hope of finally renaming my WE Surprisebuttsex lol.

I consider most of what is said in those CoC highly subjective.

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

Well then think again. Because without GBF, you don't have a reason to go 2h and 2h tank is meant to support ST burst with melee dps. You dont switch off of that and stay 2h.

Not sure who is feeding you this fake info but i would considered vetting your sources a bit more before committing to such definitive statements when they arent true. Singling out one person to put a blame on is rather petty and doesnt contribute much to the debate either.

It was based on something he said earlier in the thread. Might have been some unfortunate wording on this part.

[zumos2]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter.

I really wonder what your goal for such a post is ... The most hilarious part is that it isn't even true.

Not that it is any of your business who proposes what within the balance team. As long as everyone in the team agrees with a change at the end, we all share the responsibility.

[PROsiak]

IB is in a great spot

You don't have many people to prove this statement true, as IB is probably one of the most unpopular classes on the order side, and few people who actually care about this class actively raise many concerns about current state of the ironbreaker, so it might be a bit of an overstatement calling it a great spot.

[nocturnalguest]

It wasnt Zumos shot. Whole balance group makes proposals collectively which is further approved by developer assigned to be in charge of balance.
Not sure who is feeding you this fake info but i would considered vetting your sources a bit more before committing to such definitive statements when they arent true. Singling out one person to put a blame on is rather petty and doesnt contribute much to the debate either.
As for this silly debate that is going here, IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks. If thats still not enough dmg for your taste, you are free to roll a full time dps class if expecting a full time dps results.
As always, its ongoing process and nowhere near done.

Decision making process for proposals =/= making a proposal. I dont have to be vetting anything as it was convo in discord where he said "Heavy Blow might need a nerf yes" on a day when tank channels were normalised. So it was his "shot" for sure and calling it not true is just hypocrisy. You use word "blame", while nobody has been putting blame on anyone. Questioning decision and its reasoning is prohibited by CoC too now?
As for the debate i havent notice anyone here have been saying that IB is in a bad spot and HB being useless after 20% dmg nerf. I said it was pointless to change HB and still stand on this statement. I said that BoG feels like lackluster (not considering its current bugged state) and explained myself properly (havent seen any counterarguments btw), maybe more tests will show otherwise (i admit that what i and others here do is rant on day 1 without actual data to support claims, its pretty common to do on forums, so i believe its no surpise for anyone) but definitely not for zerg orvr where most people play and very debatable for small scale where i cant atm figure its proper usage without big downsides, so its hard to say as we can consider it a nerf or buff yet.

I have very high hopes that its ongoing process, but we were previously have been kept with pointless/bad changes for ages without reverts, coming back, evaluating and looking into data. I do really hope it will be very different this time.

I really wonder what your goal for such a post is ... The most hilarious part is that it isn't even true.

Not that it is any of your business who proposes what within the balance team. As long as everyone in the team agrees with a change at the end, we all share the responsibility.

Ok, look, i apologize. Mentioning you specifically is very low from me and shouldnt be happening. Im sorry. Ill be addressing further questions to a balance team, not person.

In regards to the rest, mine or not - im worried about what you guys will do with the game. Plans are kept secret. Is it ok to communicate with community this way? I believe no

[hogun]

[/quote]

IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks.
[/quote]

with no disrespect to you, you must be mistaken about the tank, all the logs I've collected show the opposite.

[Everdin]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter. Ill start from afar, but whole story in my pov is the following:
Tank channel change is normalization of dmg channels we've just had is very important and led to HB nerf. It had some sense to normalize imo (while a lot of people will not agree on this), i'd mention that while they were on it they didnt pay too much attention into mastery trees allocations for all those skill and this could be the matter of further finetuning (i do hope) if someone gathers enough reliable data and some proper proposals i guess, because i believe not considering it is oversight.
Word normalization is pretty important here as logic behind the nerf was as simple as - HB is outliner for each and every tank skill in game. We need to have things normalized. This perfectionism is the only driver for that change as i see it.
It was mentioned here by many that the change is pointless pretty much... world didnt crumble with it, but ranting here is more like expression of uncertanty that direction for balance in this regard is correct.
Where was never an option to properly check IBs dps/burst would love to see how those 20-30% of dmg loss from HB affects the general scheme. Shouldnt be very much, but what sadens me is that even if it would be kept the same it wouldnt anyhow disrupt overall balance, either for tanks or game as a whole.

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

Well yes, it has to be proven. Because its a loss of pretty important source for AP pump along being a 13 pointer and restrict you spec wise. But overally to say if its a buff or nerf we have to consider "party dmg with ap pump" vs "party dmg with +25% aa increase" vs. "consider party dmg with IB running GBF" with other things unchanged. I feel that the winner is ap pump.

It's pretty pointless to argue about all these changes, this game is far from beeing balanced and with the current state of the "balance" team there will be no hope for the future, just look at setups of certain players and you will see what will be next "balance". Normaly I would argue that "They just don't know it better" or they have no experience with some classes, but the truth is, they are very well aware what they are doing and how, and the experience most of them have comes from the enemy side.