Patch Notes 06/02/2024

[Zxul]

On the side note, everyone is talking about ability changes, and non is talking about Code of Conduct changes. There goes my hope of finally renaming my WE Surprisebuttsex lol.

[Cherusk]

On the side note, everyone is talking about ability changes, and non is talking about Code of Conduct changes. There goes my hope of finally renaming my WE Surprisebuttsex lol.

Iam scared to login atm or interact with the community in any form from now on.

iam pretty direct in voicing my opinion on stuff ingame..like the useless Suppression changes on chosen etc...i could be booted at any point..by a GM/Dev who has a bad day or doesnt like me

btw....first post ever since 2014!!!!!

[zulnam]

My god the patches have been crazy for RoR lately!

BG went from the destro tank you get just to fill the ranks to a must-have.

Also i kind of expected more thread pages seeing Rampage finally changed. I mean there's probably 13 pages just of threads on the subject matter, not even counting posts.

[ravezaar]

Also i kind of expected more thread pages seeing Rampage finally changed. I mean there's probably 13 pages just of threads on the subject matter, not even counting posts.

not all go on Forums but the amount of ppl winnerjoining Des is a good indication of balance

[Farrul]

Are you trying to tell me that an IB with 160 damage bonus and 550 ws should deal equal damage to a Slayer with 230 damage bonus and 800 weapon skill? Else I'm not following what argument you're trying to make there.

For the record, we do take class differences into account and what role each ability has. We didn't nerf Heavy Blow to mirror Relentless Strike, it is still way stronger. I simply aimed to give some context to how strong the ability was exactly. I would think anyone unbiased could see it was a bit over the top. IB damage potential is still strong. And in a group context the total damage you bring has only been increased with Blood of Grimnir. Which can also increase your damage a lot, especially if you can proc your own AA haste.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

You compared Heavy blow to Relentless strike as to show the potency of Heavy blow, the issue with this comparison as i explained is that you can't compare abilities like that in a vacuum without taking the actual class and more importantly class mechanics they belong to into account, IB's are not Slayers and vice versa.
If you place Heavy blow in a slayer context it would be broken indeed. As it is nobody to my knowledge has ever complained about it since IB's have an archaic resource system FAR worse than the mirror : Black Guard and is the hardest tank class to play in the game.

The actual window of making Heavy blow overperforming to warrant a nerf is none existent in a real context, after playing this class at a decent level for years i know I'B's wont overperform ( now if you are objective about balancing, then please take a look at WITCHBREW, that is a skill in need of a real nerf, not Heavy blow) . If somehow something is off damage-wise it is because you buffed the channel attack and added a weird design ( 10% arp at 100 grudge) that is hard to utilize on class that spends 1/4 resource bar on a simple punt, once again because of how Archaic in the design the IB's resource management is.

Hence i will quote myself and hopefully this message will sink in:

'' The more powerful attacks of the IB were always balanced to their harder to regenerate resources, this is obvious to anyone who does small scale. ''

The second point is that Heavy blow is a vastly more important skill to IB's than Relentless strike is to Slayers, it is an insult ( or Grudge ) to every IB comparing them, no offence. As it is the least you can do is seriously considering to add Rising Anger (tactic) as core effect to the class like the Black Guard mirror already has, you nerf the damage pontential then do something about the obsolete resource management of the class.

[hogun]

Only a 2H IB would care about increasing their own damage, so how exactly do you expect a 2H IB to spec up high in both trees and not sacrifice other key abilities/tactics?

If you were part of this change, I'm sorry that you seem to have taken all your knowledge of the class from looking at tooltips and career builders, cause it doesn't seem like you have actual experience playing the class or you would have seen the fault in your own logic.

The whole idea of Mastery Trees is that you have to make choices and cannot get everything you would want at the same time.

And if you think personal attacks are gonna help, I can assure you they wont.

Making an observation that you don't seem to have a deep understanding of the class is not a personal attack. Its an observation. You said an IB can buff their own auto attack damage, yes? Shield spec wont have much damage to begin with, so count them out. That means you're talking 2H spec. What 70 RR career mastery spec would you think would work with this ability? Grudge-Born Fury is out of the question, unless you want to give up THREE of the FOUR key abilities/tactics that make 2H spec decent- knockdown, 10% damage/5% parry tactic, aoe snare, 10% crit/str buff for self/oath friend. Parry buff is completely out of the question here if you are talking a pure IB damage build.

Making choices, yes, but why on earth would you sacrifice 10% damage and 5% parry, knockdown, and aoe snare for a weak aoe damage skill that costs a significant amount of grudge (something IB has no real way to build quickly unlike the BG) and only gives a small boost to auto attack damage? Heavy Blow was decent damage after full grudges, but now your best damage ability is Grudge-Born Fury. How are you going to have both this new ability and GBF in the same build? Sacrifice a set bonus for +2 masteries from sov gear to dilute possible IB stats to grab a couple of these abilities? I'm sincerely asking here, because it seems myself and the rest of the community see what you all did and have not come up with any reasonable explanation as to why this is an overall benefit to the class.

Maybe I missed the cacophany of cries about Ironbreaker damage being too strong on these forums. Anyone else able to find these threads somewhere?

thank you, here's someone who really knows the IB,

I totally agree with your explanation

[ravezaar]

Agree completly with Detangler

[Ysaran]

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

[nocturnalguest]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter. Ill start from afar, but whole story in my pov is the following:
Tank channel change is normalization of dmg channels we've just had is very important and led to HB nerf. It had some sense to normalize imo (while a lot of people will not agree on this), i'd mention that while they were on it they didnt pay too much attention into mastery trees allocations for all those skill and this could be the matter of further finetuning (i do hope) if someone gathers enough reliable data and some proper proposals i guess, because i believe not considering it is oversight.
Word normalization is pretty important here as logic behind the nerf was as simple as - HB is outliner for each and every tank skill in game. We need to have things normalized. This perfectionism is the only driver for that change as i see it.
It was mentioned here by many that the change is pointless pretty much... world didnt crumble with it, but ranting here is more like expression of uncertanty that direction for balance in this regard is correct.
Where was never an option to properly check IBs dps/burst would love to see how those 20-30% of dmg loss from HB affects the general scheme. Shouldnt be very much, but what sadens me is that even if it would be kept the same it wouldnt anyhow disrupt overall balance, either for tanks or game as a whole.

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

Well yes, it has to be proven. Because its a loss of pretty important source for AP pump along being a 13 pointer and restrict you spec wise. But overally to say if its a buff or nerf we have to consider "party dmg with ap pump" vs "party dmg with +25% aa increase" vs. "consider party dmg with IB running GBF" with other things unchanged. I feel that the winner is ap pump.

[Gravord]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter.

It wasnt Zumos shot. Whole balance group makes proposals collectively which is further approved by developer assigned to be in charge of balance.
Not sure who is feeding you this fake info but i would considered vetting your sources a bit more before committing to such definitive statements when they arent true. Singling out one person to put a blame on is rather petty and doesnt contribute much to the debate either.
As for this silly debate that is going here, IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks. If thats still not enough dmg for your taste, you are free to roll a full time dps class if expecting a full time dps results.
As always, its ongoing process and nowhere near done.