MSH AoE punt way overtuned

[Bosli]

I can not see the benefit of doing this.
It gives immunities so in small scale all have 30 sec immunity
In large scale a lot of immunities given and a dead squid herder.

You can not see the benefit of this, are you ******** me? You can be happy I have been order main for so long now and not playing destro.

Destro already loses their mind when a single swordmaster pounces onto fort walls every minute and punts 2 people off. You can bet that I would be doing that on cooldown and farm pugs until the door is down if I was playing msh, and it would be nerfed the next week.

Just because nobody is abusing it (yet) doesn't mean it should not be changed. If it's not getting nerfed I will simply play the class and abuse it so hard that it will have to be changed because order players cry their eyeballs out, easy as that. If you can't admit something is unnecessarily insanely strong, I guess it needs to be proved.

[Acidic]

1. And MSH has an impact on this ? Let’s hear it.

2. But LoTD is not about class or realm balance, look at the threads that explain orders problem, or a simplified stop blobbing as only tactic, take objectives….. these are dealt with in other threads.

3. First identify a realm imbalance , identify the problem generating the imbalance ,and then suggest solution identifying how it addresses the issue and affects the rest of the game.

1. Does AoE faceroll class have any impact on mass pvp? Don't even ask.
2. I'm sorry, but i do not believe that lotd order problem lies only in this things. Order winrate isn't just bad, its almost nonexistant, its like putting a novice against veteran with a predictable result. If order was permanently dominated in oRvR i could agree with that - but this is not the case.
3. No changes for a few years, yeah, its very motivating...

1 aoe face roll, msh with cdr is better to leap and do big bouncing, aoe punt in this context is not face roll aoe. So relevance to the leap would be good.
2 . Y separate thread, manny have been done , manny with the same conclusion, best keep it separate
3. So change for the sake of change. Maybe the promised slayer/chopper rework. But no change as they are doing a rework of the backend skill engine (ie making a common skill engine so changes can be made easier and more reliably according to the devs posts)

So nothing about the msh punt is LoTD either.

But @xerg go make the video , could be funny as hell

[Acidic]

I can not see the benefit of doing this.
It gives immunities so in small scale all have 30 sec immunity
In large scale a lot of immunities given and a dead squid herder.

You can not see the benefit of this, are you ******** me? You can be happy I have been order main for so long now and not playing destro.

Destro already loses their mind when a single swordmaster pounces onto fort walls every minute and punts 2 people off. You can bet that I would be doing that on cooldown and farm pugs until the door is down if I was playing msh, and it would be nerfed the next week.

Just because nobody is abusing it (yet) doesn't mean it should not be changed. If it's not getting nerfed I will simply play the class and abuse it so hard that it will have to be changed because order players cry their eyeballs out, easy as that. If you can't admit something is unnecessarily insanely strong, I guess it needs to be proved.

Best answer yet, do it , record it, come back with somewhere it affects gameplay as the base the discussion on rather than some unclear reasoning. Mainly want to see the video

[Cleo]

2. I'm sorry, but i do not believe that lotd order problem lies only in this things. Order winrate isn't just bad, its almost nonexistant, its like putting a novice against veteran with a predictable result. If order was permanently dominated in oRvR i could agree with that - but this is not the case.

Kinda baffling how LotD is seen as a problem for Order, but the lack of Altdorf City Sieges is perfectly fine.

[Avernus]

1 aoe face roll, msh with cdr is better to leap and do big bouncing, aoe punt in this context is not face roll aoe. So relevance to the leap would be good.
2 . Y separate thread, manny have been done , manny with the same conclusion, best keep it separate
3. So change for the sake of change. Maybe the promised slayer/chopper rework. But no change as they are doing a rework of the backend skill engine (ie making a common skill engine so changes can be made easier and more reliably according to the devs posts)

So nothing about the msh punt is LoTD either.

But @xerg go make the video , could be funny as hell

1. I did answer on your question though. There was nothing about aoe punt, but yes, its mostly irrelevant in lotd case.
2. Yes.
3. Isn't this a good thing to shake a meta (a bit)?

[Avernus]

Kinda baffling how LotD is seen as a problem for Order, but the lack of Altdorf City Sieges is perfectly fine.

As far as i know, you should thank NA order (and almost nonexistant NA destro) for this.

[Acidic]

1 aoe face roll, msh with cdr is better to leap and do big bouncing, aoe punt in this context is not face roll aoe. So relevance to the leap would be good.
2 . Y separate thread, manny have been done , manny with the same conclusion, best keep it separate
3. So change for the sake of change. Maybe the promised slayer/chopper rework. But no change as they are doing a rework of the backend skill engine (ie making a common skill engine so changes can be made easier and more reliably according to the devs posts)

So nothing about the msh punt is LoTD either.

But @xerg go make the video , could be funny as hell

1. I did answer on your question though. There was nothin about aoe punt, but yes, its mostly irrelevant in lotd case.
2. Yes.
3. Isn't this a good thing to shake a meta (a bit)?

As this is not meta (none has seen it) can’t see how this even possibly would change anything
Maybe the new meta is exploding squig

[anarchypark]

If it's not getting nerfed I will simply play the class and abuse it so hard that it will have to be changed because order players cry their eyeballs out, easy as that. If you can't admit something is unnecessarily insanely strong, I guess it needs to be proved.

I strongly recommend that you actually do that.
you'll discover that using the no CD pounce requires the petless tactic for pet class, just like WL.
Additionally, you will often find yourself dead after the first kaboom.

While the formation disruptor may seem cool, the timing of when to use it is crucial.
I doubt that you and pug will see the same opportunity for the AoE punt. pug will likely miss it,
and they may yell that you provide free immunity, ruining their own AoE moment.
You will find yourself yelling back at them, that they cannot see the formation disruption.
in premade, they may ask you not to use it because of the AoE bomb.

In the end, you will come to realize that the issue is not the kaboom cooldown.
( it's squig leap + m2 snare + kaboom on healer blob, leap is fun problem but let's not derail )
at the moment, it seems like nothing I say will be heard.
So, experience it firsthand.
hurry up, before Tor Anroc become event SC.

[Xergon]

Stacking choppers is meta, spamming any type of aoe punt is strongly discourage as it’s just free immunities
Agree msh with choppa and guard are helpful but not thier AOE punt.

Maybe to be specific how is the aoe punt helping in LoTD , punt them off the desert maybe ?

AOE punt less so, but AOE pull's are what makes destro so effective in big open space engagements.
People look at big rvr clips and say order didn't do this, order could have done that, order could have brought more slayers. But thats the problem - order definitely has its strengths, but most of the time they're too conditional/distributed across less attractive classes/harder to pull off or simply unrealistic to happen. Just look at how much of an impact choppas aoe pulls have on big fights. When every second u have 3-4 people getting pulled, dpses getting out of guard range, tanks getting out of position, people dying far from the back line. 15-20 seconds later order front line is stretched, half dead, half unrezable, half positioned no one has clue where, destro makes a push and thats it.

Order is losing because they play like this:

Click here to watch on YouTube

clump up all together on one spot so enemy can encircle u easier and land all aoe in the universe...

[Phantasm]

Click here to watch on YouTube

I tried myself reproducing what OP describe. As you can see on video its total nonsense, puts you and your group in a position you don't want to be, gives no advantages after first execution. Kaboom is a very situational skill, it doesnt matter its CD is 5s or 50s, you dont want to use it more then once and only in special places like bridges or edges.

Melee Squig can pounce without cd, and gets an aoe punt literally as often as he can armor up again, with the insane distance and arc of a blackguard? Yes, it literally is the best punt as AoE with just 5s cooldown. Also, I'm not sure if it is even defendable apart from immunity.

To do anything like that on order, you need to use sm M1 pounce (60s cd) to do the worst punt in the game. If used correctly, that skill is on M4 levels of enemy disruption. Can we not nerf this to a regular healer AoE knockback?

You want idea how to abuse aoe punt? Get tanky IB sloted Powered Etchings crossguarded by SM with Whispering Wind and watch chain exposions and flying bodies every 5s, spreading immunities like candies and being called a noob