MSH AoE punt way overtuned

[Bosli]

Can you not derail topics just once, this is exactly why nothing can ever get properly discussed in this forum, or discord, or game. Just stop already and make a different post about that specific topic please.

I am convinced that a class that doesn't lack engage+escape tools (pounce + aoe punt + selfpunt) and pounces without cooldown, doesn't need a unique AoE punt that is about as strong as tank single-target punts or a handful never-used M4s. Agree or disagree with proper arguments without going over completely different topics.

[Acidic]

Can you not derail topics just once, this is exactly why nothing can ever get properly discussed in this forum, or discord, or game. Just stop already and make a different post about that specific topic please.

I am convinced that a class that doesn't lack engage+escape tools (pounce + aoe punt + selfpunt) and pounces without cooldown, doesn't need a unique AoE punt that is about as strong as tank single-target punts or a handful never-used M4s. Agree or disagree with proper arguments without going over completely different topics.

The proper argument is how it affects realm balance, this is the core of any balance change

[Xergon]

Can you not derail topics just once, this is exactly why nothing can ever get properly discussed in this forum, or discord, or game. Just stop already and make a different post about that specific topic please.

I am convinced that a class that doesn't lack engage+escape tools (pounce + aoe punt + selfpunt) and pounces without cooldown, doesn't need a unique AoE punt that is about as strong as tank single-target punts or a handful never-used M4s. Agree or disagree with proper arguments without going over completely different topics.

The proper argument is how it affects realm balance, this is the core of any balance change

Looking at the realm balance is not the only way to balance the game. Most likely when Melee form was added to the Squig, from design stand point and lore stand point aswell as fun stand point of view, looks logical to have something like that ability on that class. But having combination of Pounce and AoE punt and low CD of all those tools combined looks very unnecessary for that class to still maintain their function or ability to execute with that ability. There is absolutely no need to have MSH executing that every 10s, every 40/50/60s makes much more sens when you compare cooldowns of similar abilities on other classes.

That being said ive never tbh experienced anyone doing it or spamming or executing that combination every 10s, but i can see someone abusing it in that way.

[PROsiak]

Stacking choppers is meta, spamming any type of aoe punt is strongly discourage as it’s just free immunities
Agree msh with choppa and guard are helpful but not thier AOE punt.

Maybe to be specific how is the aoe punt helping in LoTD , punt them off the desert maybe ?

AOE punt less so, but AOE pull's are what makes destro so effective in big open space engagements.
People look at big rvr clips and say order didn't do this, order could have done that, order could have brought more slayers. But thats the problem - order definitely has its strengths, but most of the time they're too conditional/distributed across less attractive classes/harder to pull off or simply unrealistic to happen. Just look at how much of an impact choppas aoe pulls have on big fights. When every second u have 3-4 people getting pulled, dpses getting out of guard range, tanks getting out of position, people dying far from the back line. 15-20 seconds later order front line is stretched, half dead, half unrezable, half positioned no one has clue where, destro makes a push and thats it.

[Cleo]

"Nobody is doing it, but should be removed anyways" - Order main
Great thread, great arguments, nerf soon.

[Xergon]

"Nobody is doing it, but should be removed anyways" - Order main
Great thread, great arguments, nerf soon.

If nobody is doing it then why malding if its get adjusted ?
Destro main logic not found...

[Cleo]

If nobody is doing it then why malding if its get adjusted ?
Destro main logic not found...

Malding over something non-existent, then projecting said malding onto people who point it out. I see a great mind at work.

[Acidic]

Can you not derail topics just once, this is exactly why nothing can ever get properly discussed in this forum, or discord, or game. Just stop already and make a different post about that specific topic please.

I am convinced that a class that doesn't lack engage+escape tools (pounce + aoe punt + selfpunt) and pounces without cooldown, doesn't need a unique AoE punt that is about as strong as tank single-target punts or a handful never-used M4s. Agree or disagree with proper arguments without going over completely different topics.

The proper argument is how it affects realm balance, this is the core of any balance change

Looking at the realm balance is not the only way to balance the game. Most likely when Melee form was added to the Squig, from design stand point and lore stand point aswell as fun stand point of view, looks logical to have something like that ability on that class. But having combination of Pounce and AoE punt and low CD of all those tools combined looks very unnecessary for that class to still maintain their function or ability to execute with that ability. There is absolutely no need to have MSH executing that every 10s, every 40/50/60s makes much more sens when you compare cooldowns of similar abilities on other classes.

That being said ive never tbh experienced anyone doing it or spamming or executing that combination every 10s, but i can see someone abusing it in that way.

I can not see the benefit of doing this.
It gives immunities so in small scale all have 30 sec immunity
In large scale a lot of immunities given and a dead squid herder.
There is no obvious benefit for this and as such I am trying to figure out why the op is proposing the change as a balance issue not based on its effects in any part of the game ,
Not solo as needs cdr
Probably not 6 man as don’t Want to give away immunities
24 man also don’t want immunities
Zerg squig will die, or should die

So in short other than an abstract “he got too manny shinies” I can’t see what effect or reasoning there is for the change.

[Xergon]

Spoiler:

The proper argument is how it affects realm balance, this is the core of any balance change

Looking at the realm balance is not the only way to balance the game. Most likely when Melee form was added to the Squig, from design stand point and lore stand point aswell as fun stand point of view, looks logical to have something like that ability on that class. But having combination of Pounce and AoE punt and low CD of all those tools combined looks very unnecessary for that class to still maintain their function or ability to execute with that ability. There is absolutely no need to have MSH executing that every 10s, every 40/50/60s makes much more sens when you compare cooldowns of similar abilities on other classes.

That being said ive never tbh experienced anyone doing it or spamming or executing that combination every 10s, but i can see someone abusing it in that way.

I can not see the benefit of doing this.
It gives immunities so in small scale all have 30 sec immunity
In large scale a lot of immunities given and a dead squid herder.
There is no obvious benefit for this and as such I am trying to figure out why the op is proposing the change as a balance issue not based on its effects in any part of the game ,
Not solo as needs cdr
Probably not 6 man as don’t Want to give away immunities
24 man also don’t want immunities
Zerg squig will die, or should die

So in short other than an abstract “he got too manny shinies” I can’t see what effect or reasoning there is for the change.

I can see world where its being abused in big fights, where u can pounce in execute aoe punt then survive for next 5s to do it again and again, sure u will not punt other 24 that u gave immunities, but u might punt other 24 that does not have immunities and another 24 that does not have it... Or in open field where u can pounce from place to place to keep doing that.

I can see that, but true i have never seen anyone doing it, would like to actually see it on video so u can see how it actually perform/works.

[Avernus]

1. And MSH has an impact on this ? Let’s hear it.

2. But LoTD is not about class or realm balance, look at the threads that explain orders problem, or a simplified stop blobbing as only tactic, take objectives….. these are dealt with in other threads.

3. First identify a realm imbalance , identify the problem generating the imbalance ,and then suggest solution identifying how it addresses the issue and affects the rest of the game.

1. Does AoE faceroll class have any impact on mass pvp? Don't even ask.
2. I'm sorry, but i do not believe that lotd order problem lies only in this things. Order winrate isn't just bad, its almost nonexistant, its like putting a novice against veteran with a predictable result. If order was permanently dominated in oRvR i could agree with that - but this is not the case.
3. No changes for a few years, yeah, its very motivating...