do we have a balance problem?

[sighy]

game is balanced to be more easy and more fun for destro thats it.

So that's why Order has the literal strongest classes of the archetype... the more you know.

Only place Sorc can outperform BW(barring skill discrepency) is timestamps.

SL is the single strongest mdps by a damn landslide both aoe and single target depending on spec.

WP is super strong both conventional and shield spec

KotBS is the toughest bastard in the game, who brings a ton of utility

SW has strong ranged aoe and excellent st/tankyness in assault

WLs have been an overpowered overperforming nightmare for years... and so forth.


I'm not denying that some classes/specs on Order struggle like WHs, however that is because they are the 4th best(out of 4) mst and have basically no aoe, where their greatest strength is to stealth up and run away from a situation where the other 3 would die anyway. And offensively punces are way less clunky than stealth. To give an example.

Are you trolling or blind? SL is not stronges by landslide, not even close to that. WP is better than DOK in heal, but not y a lot. mSH is better in city than sw. WL is OP? play a game a bit dude, don't tell lies.

You have to take that within the context of what I was responding to... sigh.

Slayer has overall high damage, great utility knockdowns, cd increases, etc and Rampage an infamous skill which needs no introduction, especially to those who are kinda squishy and rely mainly on parry to keep them alive. A real bargain at the bottom of the mastery tree no less.

I never even brough up DoK, but main heal spec is pretty close +/- a few synergies. WP has a stronger shield spec, but clunky dps and vice versa for dok.

msh and msw are indeed different and good at different things because of that yes

WL HAS BEEN OP for years... that's past tense suggesting that it happened, in the past, until something called a nerf happened to bring us into the present, where they're pretty balanced.



And in case it isn't obvious i'm not talking strictly about wb play, but the overall game.

[Charon]

Spoiler:

Oh, you wanna talk about things that one realm have and other dont?? Sure:
-Order have access to unique ability which nullify the whole tank archetype, 66% uptime and really low on mastery tree wich make it accesible in any spec.
-Order have access to a CD increaser which can be UNDEFENDABLE (in the hands of any decent player)
-Order have access to unique group wounds buff in a core class of any grp (wich means that any order grp is running around with +630 hp)
-Order have access to unique outgoing heal buff (+20%) in a core class (most played healer), close to 100% uptime in any decent player
....

Still you playing meme-classes, soloqueing and getting farmed

Whether it is used or not is irrelevant. => yes its relevant. if you dont use the tools you have how the hell can complain to get more?? its like buying a second car when the 1st never came out the garage...

- ohhh boy rampage again ---- simple combo msh + bg is doing more than this skill against all enemies around and in hands of decent players rampage is so easy to counter.
- the same with wounds buff ..its blessing good sake - should i tell you how to cleanse it ..... whats more don't you have access to common liniments that are more reliable in this department ....Take out rampage from sl and what "advantage" will stay at order. And still GTDC>rampage (if you want complain rather about ID) in hands of decent player.
- Exalted defences vs khains withdrawal, transferred focus etc (wp vs docks there were also a lot of conversations about that and they are rather close to each other in heal spec ..so lets compare dps ones maybe)

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

you have 2 stack able and ready to use when order has 1 clunky and at one of least played class (cleansed or not does not matter, all of them can be cleansed but destro just bc simple statistic still has big advantage in that department).

[sighy]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Oh, you wanna talk about things that one realm have and other dont?? Sure:
-Order have access to unique ability which nullify the whole tank archetype, 66% uptime and really low on mastery tree wich make it accesible in any spec.
-Order have access to a CD increaser which can be UNDEFENDABLE (in the hands of any decent player)
-Order have access to unique group wounds buff in a core class of any grp (wich means that any order grp is running around with +630 hp)
-Order have access to unique outgoing heal buff (+20%) in a core class (most played healer), close to 100% uptime in any decent player
....

Still you playing meme-classes, soloqueing and getting farmed

Whether it is used or not is irrelevant. => yes its relevant. if you dont use the tools you have how the hell can complain to get more?? its like buying a second car when the 1st never came out the garage...

- ohhh boy rampage again ---- simple combo msh + bg is doing more than this skill against all enemies around and in hands of decent players rampage is so easy to counter.
- the same with wounds buff ..its blessing good sake - should i tell you how to cleanse it ..... whats more don't you have access to common liniments that are more reliable in this department ....Take out rampage from sl and what "advantage" will stay at order. And still GTDC>rampage (if you want complain rather about ID) in hands of decent player.
- Exalted defences vs khains withdrawal, transferred focus etc (wp vs docks there were also a lot of conversations about that and they are rather close to each other in heal spec ..so lets compare dps ones maybe)

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

Chosen oopsie from a couple patches ago could have been cleansed too, in theory...

[CeeJay89]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Oh, you wanna talk about things that one realm have and other dont?? Sure:
-Order have access to unique ability which nullify the whole tank archetype, 66% uptime and really low on mastery tree wich make it accesible in any spec.
-Order have access to a CD increaser which can be UNDEFENDABLE (in the hands of any decent player)
-Order have access to unique group wounds buff in a core class of any grp (wich means that any order grp is running around with +630 hp)
-Order have access to unique outgoing heal buff (+20%) in a core class (most played healer), close to 100% uptime in any decent player
....

Still you playing meme-classes, soloqueing and getting farmed

Whether it is used or not is irrelevant. => yes its relevant. if you dont use the tools you have how the hell can complain to get more?? its like buying a second car when the 1st never came out the garage...

- ohhh boy rampage again ---- simple combo msh + bg is doing more than this skill against all enemies around and in hands of decent players rampage is so easy to counter.
- the same with wounds buff ..its blessing good sake - should i tell you how to cleanse it ..... whats more don't you have access to common liniments that are more reliable in this department ....Take out rampage from sl and what "advantage" will stay at order. And still GTDC>rampage (if you want complain rather about ID) in hands of decent player.
- Exalted defences vs khains withdrawal, transferred focus etc (wp vs docks there were also a lot of conversations about that and they are rather close to each other in heal spec ..so lets compare dps ones maybe)

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

Apples and oranges, my guy. Your arguments are thin. A CD reducer is not comparable to a wounds buff. I'll gladly advocate a trade though if you'd like. Chop Fasta! for Wounds buff? I'm on board.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Oh, you wanna talk about things that one realm have and other dont?? Sure:
-Order have access to unique ability which nullify the whole tank archetype, 66% uptime and really low on mastery tree wich make it accesible in any spec.
-Order have access to a CD increaser which can be UNDEFENDABLE (in the hands of any decent player)
-Order have access to unique group wounds buff in a core class of any grp (wich means that any order grp is running around with +630 hp)
-Order have access to unique outgoing heal buff (+20%) in a core class (most played healer), close to 100% uptime in any decent player
....

Still you playing meme-classes, soloqueing and getting farmed

Whether it is used or not is irrelevant. => yes its relevant. if you dont use the tools you have how the hell can complain to get more?? its like buying a second car when the 1st never came out the garage...

Its 33% uptime in practical terms, the only way to get it always on 20second Rampage is to continually exhaust which then gimps the Slayers Damage
The CD increaser is nullified by all the cooldown decreasers Destro have, as already explained, it is maximum 3 second increaser with decreasers being 5 seconds, so Destro healers wont notice a difference
Wounds buff good yeah, but can be severed, and viewed in the context of wounds debuffs going around
I have tested the +%20 heal buff and I have found overall there is very little difference in heal output between that and slotting Discipline, and there are only so many tactic slots to go around

The CD increaser is nullified by all the cooldown decreasers Destro have => or the CD reducers destro have to counter the cd increser? what was first?
discipline its around +12% (at least on destro healers, can be +/- depending the class and the spell), but still have access to ED+Discipline (dropping fueled actions for example)

[teiloh]

SMs can take up to 7-10 seconds to get CD reducer going => SM dont have the ability to change plan/stance like BO?? i think so...dont spread misinformation, or at least learn the basics before claim for balance...

What game do you play in which SMs can instantly teleport to the enemy at the start of a fight?

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

- ohhh boy rampage again ---- simple combo msh + bg is doing more than this skill against all enemies around and in hands of decent players rampage is so easy to counter.
- the same with wounds buff ..its blessing good sake - should i tell you how to cleanse it ..... whats more don't you have access to common liniments that are more reliable in this department ....Take out rampage from sl and what "advantage" will stay at order. And still GTDC>rampage (if you want complain rather about ID) in hands of decent player.
- Exalted defences vs khains withdrawal, transferred focus etc (wp vs docks there were also a lot of conversations about that and they are rather close to each other in heal spec ..so lets compare dps ones maybe)

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

Apples and oranges, my guy. Your arguments are thin. A CD reducer is not comparable to a wounds buff. I'll gladly advocate a trade though if you'd like. Chop Fasta! for Wounds buff? I'm on board.

im up to trade the whole realms => trade anything from destro to order and viceversa. Im on board too!

[teiloh]

The CD increaser is nullified by all the cooldown decreasers Destro have => or the CD reducers destro have to counter the cd increser? what was first?
discipline its around +12% (at least on destro healers, can be +/- depending the class and the spell), but still have access to ED+Discipline (dropping fueled actions for example)

lol yes, all WP take part in the Discipline meta.

For one, Destro CD increasers are superior. 40 frontal AOE and a pounce class > 30 point blank AOE on a toilet paper class. BO also has a single target version that is frequently used.

Besides that, since your CD decreasers are also superior you get to spam 0 CD cure on DOK all day long.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

- ohhh boy rampage again ---- simple combo msh + bg is doing more than this skill against all enemies around and in hands of decent players rampage is so easy to counter.
- the same with wounds buff ..its blessing good sake - should i tell you how to cleanse it ..... whats more don't you have access to common liniments that are more reliable in this department ....Take out rampage from sl and what "advantage" will stay at order. And still GTDC>rampage (if you want complain rather about ID) in hands of decent player.
- Exalted defences vs khains withdrawal, transferred focus etc (wp vs docks there were also a lot of conversations about that and they are rather close to each other in heal spec ..so lets compare dps ones maybe)

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

you have 2 stack able and ready to use when order has 1 clunky and at one of least played class (cleansed or not does not matter, all of them can be cleansed but destro just bc simple statistic still has big advantage in that department).

Shatter is a option to destro but not to order.....order buffs are trash because (somehow) destro managed to shatter anyhting, instead destro buffs are op because (somehow) order cant shatter them...

[teiloh]

CD reducers can be shattered too => whats the problem then?

you have 2 stack able and ready to use when order has 1 clunky and at one of least played class (cleansed or not does not matter, all of them can be cleansed but destro just bc simple statistic still has big advantage in that department).

Shatter is a option to destro but not to order.....order buffs are trash because (somehow) destro managed to shatter anyhting, instead destro buffs are op because (somehow) order cant shatter them...

Learn how shatters work. The earliest buff gets knocked out first, so WP wounds buff is the first Blessing that will go after a RP Rune