do we have a balance problem?

[puzzolamistica]

SMs attack does not reduce damage by 80%.

Dragon Talon: cripple your target for 4s, reduce all dmg they deal by 80%. Combine with Raking Talons (20ft aoe) and you have free challenge attack.

u need to be full sov to play this spec and even whit that u need to cut too many good tatics so is not a playable build.....but ehy keep trying! maybe one day u can find something where order is op xD

[NSKaneda]

SMs attack does not reduce damage by 80%.

Dragon Talon: cripple your target for 4s, reduce all dmg they deal by 80%. Combine with Raking Talons (20ft aoe) and you have free challenge attack.

u need to be full sov to play this spec and even whit that u need to cut too many good tatics so is not a playable build.....but ehy keep trying! maybe one day u can find something where order is op xD

I'm not trying to find something that order is OP with, just pointing out that there are tools to be used in well organized premade warbands.

[Panodil]

SMs attack does not reduce damage by 80%.

Dragon Talon: cripple your target for 4s, reduce all dmg they deal by 80%. Combine with Raking Talons (20ft aoe) and you have free challenge attack.

no. read

[CeeJay89]

SMs attack does not reduce damage by 80%.

Dragon Talon: cripple your target for 4s, reduce all dmg they deal by 80%. Combine with Raking Talons (20ft aoe) and you have free challenge attack.

It reduces damage TO 80%. I also recall reading that it's bugged right now. Anyways, I'm done arguing with you. You clearly have absolutely no knowledge on how any of the abilities function and I don't have the time or patience to educate you.

You are clearly looking for something where there is nothing to argue that it's okay for one realm but not the other. Have a good one.

[sighy]

Spoiler:

Regarding t1 this is my break down of the Order classes:

- IB used to have some nice damage when stacking str and dots. It's a watered down version of the BG now. It just doesn't perform well and therefore is not fun to play.
- RP is pretty fine in t1, so is Zealot with the advantage of the bubble. The first tactic for dwarves is a joke btw. 50% recovery from knock downs while e.g. the goblins get a 25% auto detaunt.
- Engi can be pretty powerful in t1 and suck ***** the moment they enter t2+. The Magus scales much nicer.
- Slayer is also the weaker version of the Choppa in t1. Dies pretty quick. No access to the wounds tactic.

- WH is still good regarding damage output but with my WE I can stack tough and wounds and still have good dps (fast daggers, kisses and synergies with other classes). With WH you are either squishy or a little tougher with no damage.
- WP was always good and is still good as healer. Same as the DoK with slight advantage due to bubble. However, the Dok can go dps while the WP is much weaker as dps.
- Knight: I don't play knights often but they used to perform better with 2h and stacked str.
- BW: lol, what a joke. Every tank laughing at you. Casts slow, damage meh and on top of it you are hurting yourself. BW is in a very bad shape. Sorc somehow do better. Maybe it's because they always have at least a Chosen tank and usually also a Magus.

- WL used to have some nice burst damage and used to be a thread for shamans, SHs, sorcs, etc. Now they are a joke in t1. Coordinated strike hits like a wet noodle these days. The pet is broken, you dont have
the tools of the mara, you are squishy as **** and the burst is gone.
- SW is one of the few classes who are now better in t1 then years ago. Id say it's well balanced. Not over- nor underpowered.
- AM got hit by 2 nerfs (lost 3rd dot in t1 and the nice healing of the casted drain spell). It's basically the same as shaman now, only weaker without the auto detaunt. The mechanic is bull crap.
- SM: worst tank in t1. Just awful. Bad damage, bad survivability, bad utility. Even fully tweaked just mediocre in t1.

So all in all the Order classes are just weaker versions of the Destro classes, with less utiltity or less survivablity or less damage.

The following t1 Order classes are fine as they are: RP, Engi, WP, SW, shield Knight, dps AM
To these I would give a small boost: WH, healing AM, 2h Knight
And these need a larger boost: IB (lacking sustained dps), WL (lacking frontload dps, cost of abilitites too high), BW (lacking damage/burst on tanks and healers), SM (there is nothing unique about this class, dual whielding swords would be nice)

my 2 cents

Uhh... game is not balanced around T1, where you don't have the full kit or know what you are doing, unless you are making an alt of the same class?

[Elemint]

Rune Priest loses far too much by using Master Rune of Speed over Adamant, nobody would use it for .25 second counter, not practical

True but you don't need 4 runnies with HP pool

Yeah, yeah you do ))))))
Using To Victory! on a knight what on earth are you on about? It's not by 80%, it's by 20%. Let me put it in the simplest terms possible: Destru 2 cd decreaser order 1. Both destru and order 1 cd increaser. Destru easier. The rest of what you mentioned is not in any way, shape or form equal to these 2

Balance in T1 who on earth cares?

[Charon]

SMs attack does not reduce damage by 80%.

Dragon Talon: cripple your target for 4s, reduce all dmg they deal by 80%. Combine with Raking Talons (20ft aoe) and you have free challenge attack.

It reduces damage TO 80%. I also recall reading that it's bugged right now. Anyways, I'm done arguing with you. You clearly have absolutely no knowledge on how any of the abilities function and I don't have the time or patience to educate you.

You are clearly looking for something where there is nothing to argue that it's okay for one realm but not the other. Have a good one.

and Chosen got it -10% crit for pt now .... I remind you again and again RT tc was created in conjunction to removal of old chosen Crippling Strike and creation of current WAAGH. Now Destro has Crippling strike again and WAAGH and Order bugged RT .......legit or no ??

[Nekkma]

Destro do most certainly not ”has crippling strikes again”.

[puzzolamistica]

Spoiler:

Regarding t1 this is my break down of the Order classes:

- IB used to have some nice damage when stacking str and dots. It's a watered down version of the BG now. It just doesn't perform well and therefore is not fun to play.
- RP is pretty fine in t1, so is Zealot with the advantage of the bubble. The first tactic for dwarves is a joke btw. 50% recovery from knock downs while e.g. the goblins get a 25% auto detaunt.
- Engi can be pretty powerful in t1 and suck ***** the moment they enter t2+. The Magus scales much nicer.
- Slayer is also the weaker version of the Choppa in t1. Dies pretty quick. No access to the wounds tactic.

- WH is still good regarding damage output but with my WE I can stack tough and wounds and still have good dps (fast daggers, kisses and synergies with other classes). With WH you are either squishy or a little tougher with no damage.
- WP was always good and is still good as healer. Same as the DoK with slight advantage due to bubble. However, the Dok can go dps while the WP is much weaker as dps.
- Knight: I don't play knights often but they used to perform better with 2h and stacked str.
- BW: lol, what a joke. Every tank laughing at you. Casts slow, damage meh and on top of it you are hurting yourself. BW is in a very bad shape. Sorc somehow do better. Maybe it's because they always have at least a Chosen tank and usually also a Magus.

- WL used to have some nice burst damage and used to be a thread for shamans, SHs, sorcs, etc. Now they are a joke in t1. Coordinated strike hits like a wet noodle these days. The pet is broken, you dont have
the tools of the mara, you are squishy as **** and the burst is gone.
- SW is one of the few classes who are now better in t1 then years ago. Id say it's well balanced. Not over- nor underpowered.
- AM got hit by 2 nerfs (lost 3rd dot in t1 and the nice healing of the casted drain spell). It's basically the same as shaman now, only weaker without the auto detaunt. The mechanic is bull crap.
- SM: worst tank in t1. Just awful. Bad damage, bad survivability, bad utility. Even fully tweaked just mediocre in t1.

So all in all the Order classes are just weaker versions of the Destro classes, with less utiltity or less survivablity or less damage.

The following t1 Order classes are fine as they are: RP, Engi, WP, SW, shield Knight, dps AM
To these I would give a small boost: WH, healing AM, 2h Knight
And these need a larger boost: IB (lacking sustained dps), WL (lacking frontload dps, cost of abilitites too high), BW (lacking damage/burst on tanks and healers), SM (there is nothing unique about this class, dual whielding swords would be nice)

my 2 cents

Uhh... game is not balanced around T1, where you don't have the full kit or know what you are doing, unless you are making an alt of the same class?

game is balanced to be more easy and more fun for destro thats it.

[NSKaneda]

My bad, to 80%, I have been schooled.