Amount of parry

[Telen]

Yes and no, torque changed how that roll work is not a roll in that sense its a bit more complicated also block work also with dodge and disrupt even if it have nothing to do with guard you should multiply x3 the difference of 15% for exemple.

Guard damage is melee though. So parry also works against all damage sources there.
If guard damage was based on original damage type then block would retain its effective bonus that is reduced by the multiplicative avoidance calculation.

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Are you talking about Additive and Multiplicative percentages? The higher parry the less damage actually makes it through to the block check. Making block check less effective. Maybe avoidance should be additive? Then block and parry would have an equal weight to parry alone.

it doesnt matter if which value comes first, if you have 30% block and 50% parry you will take in both cases 35% frontal meele dmg.

No, you simply get one defence roll for 50% Parry and another defence roll for 30% block. That does not equal to a 35% dmg taken. So yet another person who dont know how guard works

was more about the math for a single frontal attack to hit, yep i used dmg, my bad not mother tongue hit would be right. but can you explain whats wrong beside that?

[Tesq]

Yes and no, torque changed how that roll work is not a roll in that sense its a bit more complicated also block work also with dodge and disrupt even if it have nothing to do with guard you should multiply x3 the difference of 15% for exemple.

Guard damage is melee though. So parry also works against all damage sources there.
If guard damage was based on original damage type then block would retain its effective bonus that is reduced by the multiplicative avoidance calculation.

Yes this may also be a chance but all tanks have parry access for the very same reason, have an easy access to guard mitigation if you move it that way then s+b tank aswell may suffer from this or be more binded to spam htl more aka there may be other unwanted conseguences aswell and anyway it could be borderline useless because vs melee it would still be parry+block and so unchanged in a meta which favour melee train.

Simply but

These are away from being certain solutions but the things that could had been tested instead the guard change we had last patch....all have valid points of view aslong the total dmg removed from the guarded is not touch. That was precisly the ONLY thing they shouldn't had to touch.

[Smellybelly]

Spoiler:

it doesnt matter if which value comes first, if you have 30% block and 50% parry you will take in both cases 35% frontal meele dmg.

No, you simply get one defence roll for 50% Parry and another defence roll for 30% block. That does not equal to a 35% dmg taken. So yet another person who dont know how guard works

was more about the math, but can you explain whats wrong?

I simply meant that its too easy and generic to say that x amount of parry and x amount of block will always means x amount of dmg taken because it does not. Each roll is unique, you may avoid all dmg or none at all. Saying 35% as a given fact is just too arbitary. Edit: Just saw your mention about the native tounge thing, its cool. Sorry if i was a bit feisty

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

No, you simply get one defence roll for 50% Parry and another defence roll for 30% block. That does not equal to a 35% dmg taken. So yet another person who dont know how guard works

was more about the math, but can you explain whats wrong?

I simply meant that its too easy and generic to say that x amount of parry and x amount of block will always means x amount of dmg taken because it does not. Each roll is unique, you may avoid all dmg or none at all. Saying 35% as a given fact is just too arbitary. Edit: Just saw your mention about the native tounge thing, its cool. Sorry if i was a bit feisty

Yes and as said torque change to how roll % is done by emulator made it harder.
To make a concrete exemple in live just with 20 % and after 70% it was basically like go with40% and 90% in that stat...here is more real but aswell more random. If you had 100 hit it could came closer to the % but on short ammount of time or burst it's total random if go near or away from that fixed %.

[Penril]

I think the issue is that much of the game is designed around additive stats and soft and hard caps. Where as avoidance is multiplicative percentages which reduces the effectiveness of block in regards to guard damage.

Why do you keep saying this? Effectiveness of block is not reduced at all. You are just making it seem that way because of how you are wording it. Let's examine your words:"50% parry is 50% avoidance. 50% parry 30% block is 65% avoidance".

You are trying to make block look less useful by saying "hey guys, a 30% block is only a 15% increase in avoidance, parry is reducing its effectiveness". I could do the same by saying "hey guys, when using a shield don't bother stacking parry cause 50% parry only increases your avoidance by 35%. Block is making parry useless!!".


Anyway.... does OP have a point? I don't think i have seen it.

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

No, you simply get one defence roll for 50% Parry and another defence roll for 30% block. That does not equal to a 35% dmg taken. So yet another person who dont know how guard works

was more about the math, but can you explain whats wrong?

I simply meant that its too easy and generic to say that x amount of parry and x amount of block will always means x amount of dmg taken because it does not. Each roll is unique, you may avoid all dmg or none at all. Saying 35% as a given fact is just too arbitary. Edit: Just saw your mention about the native tounge thing, its cool. Sorry if i was a bit feisty

all good i just picked some wrong words, yes i could have went a bit deeper, but i dont wanna write a phd about this. Thought the envirmoent was about getting hit 100 times and how avoidance was apllied. Thought i was missing something (=

[tazdingo]

can a smart person pls answer whether or not ws/wil/init actually contributes to your avoidance/guard dmg avoidance anymore because post to post people are saying completely opposite things about this unchecked and oh heck i don't know what to believe anymore

[bloodi]

Wow, just wow.

as people usually say, you cant reason people out of an opinion they didnt reason themselves in. Your crusade to show everyone that you dont know about math or game mechanics is reaching new levels that are truly worthy of a song.

Its like, no matter how many times people explain it to him, he even told me he wasnt saying arguing about this at all on another thread, now he made two different threads about it.

[Telen]

Why do you keep saying this? Effectiveness of block is not reduced at all. You are just making it seem that way because of how you are wording it. Let's examine your words:"50% parry is 50% avoidance. 50% parry 30% block is 65% avoidance".

You are trying to make block look less useful by saying "hey guys, a 30% block is only a 15% increase in avoidance, parry is reducing its effectiveness". I could do the same by saying "hey guys, when using a shield don't bother stacking parry cause 50% parry only increases your avoidance by 35%. Block is making parry useless!!".

I even say that earlier Pen. It wouldn't matter which way you put them around. Being multiplicative reduces the weight of the second check. Being able to both push any damage source to a guard as melee and parry any guard damage from any source makes parry a really strong choice. Considering that block is lower and costlier because its an avoidance for all damage types while guard turns damage into parryable damage makes guard and parry have a nice little relationship going on. Thats why the guard change happened.

Im trying to show there are other options than gutting guard and making 2h into **** guards.