What happened to RvR?

[Toldavf]

Yes, i even play an archmage right now! you can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that
Did we play together perhaps?

I think we did in my very early days, you might remember surf and belshanar maybe?

Not sure about surf, if i dig deep enough maybe, i do remember or recollect the name Belshanar! Did we play together through the Alliance or in a guild?

Sorry that was a typo not surf i meant Zuff. I think we where in guild back when i was very new to the game. I still chat to Bel he only lives up the road from me.

[Arteker616]

The other day in high pass we had some pretty epic fights...

Spoiler:

We was only 3 fg on order... fighting +3 destro wbs defending our keep... we wiped them a few times, sometimes with help, sometimes without... died a few times by swarm np
Eventually Destro got inside keep but was too many for us to kill in time / keep lord dropped and we was by ourselves... despite keep being mentioned on region
Order's attitude was lol they will never kill lord in region and all other crap that is usually spewed
we respawn go to tavern for a last stand after keep is lost... and what do we find... we find just as many order players as was destro at keep but they are all just standing on tavern bo afk doing absouletely nothing but complaining about anything and everything my guild included (damn those x realmers who come to make more interesting fights instead of dominate zzzz pvdoor fest)

This is normal attitude of entitlement... do nothing expect to be rewarded, and the system does reward for doing nothing, it does reward for being loser... you can conq up alot easier than in the past where you had to earn it and was based on activity and performance more so and yes it had is flaws too... so you will never please these people no matter what you do even if the perfect system was in place

Spoiler:

My favourite system so far was when flag capping got changed to 1 -3 minute timers... instead of 3-6 because it produced movement throughout the zone instead of static afkness on bo's... or trolling as soon as you leave by some stealth capping where small group is not worth a 24 man's time

As for fun vs progress... on destro we make no progress for a long time in my eyes with BIS and a few RR 80 (I was 3 months 0 progress atleast, some member 6 months maybe even more 0 progress) ... the main reason to play was "the enjoyment of social interactions or enjoyment of competition"... but then destro became too dominant... On order we can make more progress, but the fun is in the tougher fights because we don't out renown/gear people so its more challenging with our lowbie's

Spoiler:

TL DR... you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink... that is the Dev's problem (well not their problem its player mentality problem) dev's can't make people organise and fight properly... they provide the platform and tools for it, but alot of backseat drivers going to bitch and moan all the time instead of organise themselves to do better... instead of the usual pug overlords like Kriser/King Ocara and others who are always willing to fight... Without these people how many more people would be standing at bo's seperate ends of the map in "pvp" game and complain about every aspect.
The pugs are spoilt and they still complain, complain about allies, complain about enemies, complain about xrealm, complain about system...
They complain we don't talk to them, even when we do, and they don't talk themselves... complain that we are "zergers" even when we don't and die because of it (its very easy for us... too easy and boring if we just run around and used other wb's as shield all the time but we can't stop people following us so go figure just because we have solid guild numbers most the time we are dirty zergers which is a running in guild joke )
I know what they want, they want to run behind us and overwhelm other forces (zerg...) even if its against just one warband... to get easy medals/renown and then be hypocrits and complain about other realm doing exact the same thing, not many people in this game show restraint to such ways... i know ive jumped off bridges to death, waypointed, run to other zones flight master to get rid of tail (when its too excessive... can't do it all the time though as much as want eats away too much time and fight opportunities)
good luck fixing leach and weak mentality, it's a never ending problem...

Plenty of good fights in RVR, just need to find them

I agree with "the mentality issue" you speaking about.
I think it can not be fixed by devs it is something that community must fix on its own. It was more or less same on live with one exception - due to higher amount of players there was more people and orgs like Okara and TUP/NRM/CNTK/INVASION/Zerg etc to entertain people. This game is just huge pvp sand box. And a lot of people can not entertain them self in this game due to its limitations for single/pug players. It is not problem of players it is problem of the game core design and that's why it is niche game. Which is neither bad or good.

I like changes devs are doing to rvr. It allow small groups/warbands to roam more, making it more interesting for them to play. And I think bo's should play even bigger role to be honest because even now you still see zones shrinking to numbing zerg road between two wcs/bo's. Changes like that force people to communicate more.

As for progression there is so much in this game other then just renown and gold bags what give's me feeling of progression/achivement.Things like mind games(skaven tunnel in MM Wam ), breaking morale of the enemy, escaping inevitable death, geting people together etc To be honest I dont know why you even need all this loot if you dont have other 5-24 people around you to enable your class to play.

Spoiler:

In this epic Sunday HP/TB lake we stomped order for 1h with 2 warbands. We have started with 20% aoo on destro and ended with more or less empty zone. So we have sieged the keep and then you loged in. So I believe to the point you came in a lot of order players have been a bit frustrated. This happening to destro when you/zerg/invasion/cntk all online at the same time We were able to take this keep only due to miracle of /2. People just suddenly listened to proposals we have made. I think playing with losing realm is always the same - you have a lot of frustrated people who cant handle this feeling any more. So they "give up" and "whine"

Plenty of good fights in RVR, just need to find them

+1

Devs are human, and its imposible to find a solution to this problem , people always will moan cry or demand free stuff upon 0 risk.

In the past people wich wanted big and fast rvr ticks had to go balls to the walll and solo or duo or at max trio . this was gone long time ago, and upon changes and more changes to fixt the crys of the people about to much zerg the situation has become worse and worse .
losts of afk on bos , people dont put a effort on zone flips or want a easy defeat to move on . when u see a a whole wb of 30+ players chasing a single lvl 19 sh u know players has hit the game bottom. its awesome aswell to see one side having 240 aao and what does the zerg side. try attack the keep?. no man they spread on bos and moan for 5 stars wins , because is safer to afk on a bo when u outnumber the enemy faction 15>1 , and collect the win rather than go brave and take the keep .

u not gonna change the fact the average ror player want to zerg because zergin is safer and easier . the fact alot of the small scale tools were removed only encouraged more and more the zerg system .
the times where u saw 6 man actualy harrasing and hurtin enemy zergs ,taking massive risk to be zerged but being confident on skill and cordination has mostly died due to the changes most forum poster demanded. now most 6 man turned sc pug farmers because is where the fast and easy RR is. going with ur 6 man agaisnt aao? to hard lets kill pugs untill we find a stronger premade doing the same is better .

[drmordread]

Keep in mind, the RvR system is being reworked almost from the ground up. This is going to take time to solve and for a lot of reasons. From having to playtest everything (and remember RoR is in an Alpha phase) all the way to having to deal with RvR Lake maps that were not designed for what the Devs are envisioning. (Personally I hope the devs expand the lakes on every map, from t1 to t4).

So, have patience. Wait and see what the finished product will be.

Edit;
While the game always was centered on group play, AoR did take into account solo players and pugs. Sadly ( my personal opinion) RoR is concentrating exclusively on Organized Group Play where you really need to think when inviting people into 6 man or wb.

[7rere7]

Control RVR by making the entire zone immune to player combat ,illuminating solo & unnecessary roaming.
Set Que like SC format for each four zone BO's each BO has 12 players assigned to it for each realm.
BO points are rewarded for the realm that takes control of the BO by capping, possession , or player kills.
The realm that controls the majority of the BO's is granted keep take with bonus buffs .
The winning realm keep Lord assisting against defended keep would add to making RVR alot more exciting then the sloppiness that it is now.

[RuffRyder]

Keep in mind, the RvR system is being reworked almost from the ground up. This is going to take time to solve and for a lot of reasons.

Pretty much sums up my opinion and a fact that many players ignore.

Just look at T1 reworks and how much time it took to make people not stay endlessly in Nordland. Apart from the XP leech BOs it works fine, you can have decent fights and ganking most of the time.

With T2-4 merged - which has been one of the best decisions based on server population - it is way harder to find balance and with every new mechanic implemented there will be changes and a longer test phase. RvR worked well for many months until new changes came, and if everything works out fine, with the next changes we will have new tests, discussions, complaints... hopefully the end of all that will be a real BETA phase.

And regarding the PuG/premade thing: I am pugging the whole time for reasons and most of the time I have fun playing and never felt the system ignoring pugs or developing in the opposite direction, neither PvP nor PvE.

[ragafury]

man I hate posting in this thread,...

RvR will never be perfect. why?
diffrent states of the game. different tastes.
even once everything is changed and in pristine condition some players who will find the server will come back and call out: "this isn't like live, it sucks" because there soft and vanilla dreams of nostalgia are shattered; even though they haven't seen the other 19 1/2 systems in place which were before or after them on live or RoR changes.

I didn't play live too much; I basically leveled 2 chars to max CR level, did some RvR and went back to WoW and than CounterStrike / Dota. I revisited the game once again with it's free 2 play release but had not that much fun cause of server fusions / missing guild and community and so on.

So maybe I'm a bit more rational than others, and a bit more open minded to meta upside down patches cause of dota.

"best" RvR, which was in my opinion so far was the "classic RoR" with halfed BO random timers, which was active for 1 or 2 weeks here. I loved Fliphammer.
was the only possible way to tryhard in my opinion "inside" the RvR system and to grief the opposition. this is now gone.
though many ppl don't like fliphammer, and it wouldn't work anymore because RR and loot is granted even after you disconnect from the server and the personal contri is in place, so there were some outside factors which made it good; ppl would nowadays just logout and quit and check back the next day and try another, easier zone with less resistance.
so to get back to the beginning of my statement, just because I liked that system, it doesn't mean it's best for the server or the community. in the end it's my personal preference, nothing more.

the new RvR is a public beta in a public alpha project overall; I personally don't care too much which system is in place, as long it has the potential to deliver good open field fights with a reasonable frequency. (and as you can see, that's again just my preference).
the above system did a good job in that, though since it was only in place for 2 weeks, it could've been also just cooencidence / luck that it did deliver.
the new system also delivered some, though I see personally the game with other eyes; less motivation on my end to be honest. partially it's my fault cause I surely overplayed the game in 1.5 years, so nothing to blame the RvR system or the server made changes in general for if I'm brutally honest to myself. not much personal challenges left atm. for me + I love to invest my spare time different right now.

including non RvR related content to make a RvR zone lock a la "do PQ chapter 14 x times" just feels bad, after 1 year you will have hit those non challenging PQs for 100+ which are barely a challenge at all if you are geared with non greens and even worse once additional gearsets are released.

in that system I also would ask myself how to pull it off, cause bolster than would've to extend to non RvR areas to make it work, which than again will need multiple changes in leveling and so on... it would just cause a spiral to changes, which it seems like had already been made and abandoned by developers before RoR.

if you want to read rational critique:
- the "buy in" system / guild war effort system is atm. underwhelming; even if our guild had 100.000 on the bank, I would advice against spending those recources
- keep RR nerf was a counterproductive change; many pug leaders weren't kindled by the thought of pushing keeps already cause of endless funnel, premade warbands are mostly neither, besides some exceptions which really <3 funneling for hours, which is imo the most dull and boring gameplay ever, in any game I've ever played, usually a good planned chokepoint defense is in every game a big advantage, here it's just brute force / numbers which make it crumble; somehow the lord got harder, which made the defense / approach harder, but the reward is less, if the argument is: "the BOs grant now more"; the BOs were underwhelming before and are now just right.

that's it for now, and even that 2 points may get changed and are on devs radar, idk.

think nobody can state that there wasn't put a lot of thought into it.

some stuff isn't in place, some stuff is missing, some stuff seems close to finalized and every week there is added a bit more to the puzzle.

on paper it has potential. we will see how it turns out in the end.

and as stated by others, afkers and leechers will try to leech in every system, personal contri made it a bit easier, though, overall it's a more fair loot distribuiton than 1 goldbag per ~75 players in EU prime but even that wasn't too bad, cause you could tryhard two months and than have the gearset via medals.

my thoughts about it...