ORVR Purple bags

[Darosh]

I am rather confused how people can even complain about having 10+ purple bags and not getting the one subjugator weapon they need... I wish I even got anything other than a white bag after 40+ white bags.
I just have no luck it seems... or I am simply playing wrong to have no contribution, even though I often spend my time in the zone from beginning to end, fighting alongside my wb.

Even so I still prefer this system over the one on live back then.

You gotta maximize the amount of lottery bags to maximize expected gain

-log in, check which side has AAO is about to lose
-play on losing side, do 3-5 kills or assists, do some small contri that is enough to enter the lottery
-leave lake so that the side that is losing possibly has even bigger AAO now, or log off
-wait for the lottery results
-repeat in next zone

Doing this for a month or so, you can minmax the game by doing bare minimum "lottery entry fees" of 3-5 kills per zone, then going away and waiting until next zone lottery starts. The main important thing is to play on losing side, as winners (who usually face enemies that are losing and have AAO) have decreased/worse "victory bags". Just keep rolling, you can expect tons of white bags, business as usual, with enough of daily "heroic loser" tries you can expect 1-2 gold per month, 3-4 purples, maybe 5-10 blues and 10-15 greens and damn high number of whites.

Estimate the average amount of:

- kills
- successful BO assaults/defenses
- damage inflicted with/dealth to siege weapons (general usage; ram, oil, cannons, ...)
- siege participation (i.e.: lord damage, kills within the vicinity of a keep)
- renown gained (in relation to the average of [your] kills)
(- sponsored siege weapons)

per player in a zone, throughout the duration of a zone.

Note:
- Kills != deathblows; kills within a group count towards your personal contribution
- successful BO assaults/defenses = sticking around (and preferably scoring kills) until the timer ticked down, don't run off (linger for a 30s-1min afterwards).
- renown gained is likely used as metric to ensure you do not only pick on sub40's, if you score +1k deathblows personally (with another bajillion deathblows spread across your group members) in a zone but only gained 1k renown in total... well.

I am unsure as to whether the lost 'contribution' upon character swap is being removed from these stats, but it might explain why the system seemed to have trouble assigning and paying out bags when that change got implemented
For those of you that identifiy themselves as hardcore pugtards, I'd suggest you concentrate on actually playing the objective (BOs) on the session days of your realm's ORvR guilds, as they'll raise the average of kills to a level that you'll have trouble with reaching; return the favor and raise the average for interactions with objectives to level they can't reach without stopping their relentless pug farm.
If you have an alt on the other realm you'd be highly adivsed to chase the AAO with it, if you don't have an alt or are not really interested in playing it... well, you better actually try to 'contribute' as the bonus to rolls scales with your 'contribution' - reaching (atleast some of) the averages is required to get eligible for an actual bonus to your next roll on the bags you want.
The latter should be self-evident, if you don't contribute enough to be (without the giant malus from AAO) eligible to gold/purple bags, you'll naturally not gain a bonus to future rolls - its bad luck prevention, slacking all day != bad luck.

Rule of thumb:
- ~8ish kills (+/- depending on killfeed; activity, elapsed time),
- ~8ish successful BO assaults/defenses
- as many kills as humanely possible on and in the vicinity of objectives
- tapping the lord (preferably without **** over your realm by dragging the lord out of the room, you bloody nubs)
- as much renown as humanely possible
- tap siege (kill dat oil - pewpew it with cannons if need be, don't waste ammo on players; pop dem evil cannons on the wall or jump onto the ram if you are a tank)

Chances are these averages are weighted in a way and funneled into an overall score - but still checked off/for to ensure that your 'contribution' matches the bare minimum of effort/slack put into the flip.
I could imagine playing objectives to be more juicy until 3* and after that depending on whether you are the one being sieged, or the one doing the sieging.

If you happen to find only white bags in your mails for weeks straight, without greens and blues breaking the pattern rather frequently... well, you don't even reach the contribution levels required to be eligible for green and blue rolls (= do not accumulate bonus rolls for those bags), which in turn means that you are essentially brainafk (= fixiating on one thing in the lakes; e.g.: afk on a BO that is 24/7 uncontested, chasing people across the map but avoiding BOs like the plague).

My 2 cents.

[lefze]

Spoiler:

I am rather confused how people can even complain about having 10+ purple bags and not getting the one subjugator weapon they need... I wish I even got anything other than a white bag after 40+ white bags.
I just have no luck it seems... or I am simply playing wrong to have no contribution, even though I often spend my time in the zone from beginning to end, fighting alongside my wb.

Even so I still prefer this system over the one on live back then.

You gotta maximize the amount of lottery bags to maximize expected gain

-log in, check which side has AAO is about to lose
-play on losing side, do 3-5 kills or assists, do some small contri that is enough to enter the lottery
-leave lake so that the side that is losing possibly has even bigger AAO now, or log off
-wait for the lottery results
-repeat in next zone

Doing this for a month or so, you can minmax the game by doing bare minimum "lottery entry fees" of 3-5 kills per zone, then going away and waiting until next zone lottery starts. The main important thing is to play on losing side, as winners (who usually face enemies that are losing and have AAO) have decreased/worse "victory bags". Just keep rolling, you can expect tons of white bags, business as usual, with enough of daily "heroic loser" tries you can expect 1-2 gold per month, 3-4 purples, maybe 5-10 blues and 10-15 greens and damn high number of whites.

Estimate the average amount of:

- kills
- successful BO assaults/defenses
- damage inflicted with/dealth to siege weapons (general usage; ram, oil, cannons, ...)
- siege participation (i.e.: lord damage, kills within the vicinity of a keep)
- renown gained (in relation to the average of [your] kills)
(- sponsored siege weapons)

per player in a zone, throughout the duration of a zone.

Note:
- Kills != deathblows; kills within a group count towards your personal contribution
- successful BO assaults/defenses = sticking around (and preferably scoring kills) until the timer ticked down, don't run off (linger for a 30s-1min afterwards).
- renown gained is likely used as metric to ensure you do not only pick on sub40's, if you score +1k deathblows personally (with another bajillion deathblows spread across your group members) in a zone but only gained 1k renown in total... well.

I am unsure as to whether the lost 'contribution' upon character swap is being removed from these stats, but it might explain why the system seemed to have trouble assigning and paying out bags when that change got implemented
For those of you that identifiy themselves as hardcore pugtards, I'd suggest you concentrate on actually playing the objective (BOs) on the session days of your realm's ORvR guilds, as they'll raise the average of kills to a level that you'll have trouble with reaching; return the favor and raise the average for interactions with objectives to level they can't reach without stopping their relentless pug farm.
If you have an alt on the other realm you'd be highly adivsed to chase the AAO with it, if you don't have an alt or are not really interested in playing it... well, you better actually try to 'contribute' as the bonus to rolls scales with your 'contribution' - reaching (atleast some of) the averages is required to get eligible for an actual bonus to your next roll on the bags you want.
The latter should be self-evident, if you don't contribute enough to be (without the giant malus from AAO) eligible to gold/purple bags, you'll naturally not gain a bonus to future rolls - its bad luck prevention, slacking all day != bad luck.

Rule of thumb:
- ~8ish kills (+/- depending on killfeed; activity, elapsed time),
- ~8ish successful BO assaults/defenses
- as many kills as humanely possible on and in the vicinity of objectives
- tapping the lord (preferably without **** over your realm by dragging the lord out of the room, you bloody nubs)
- as much renown as humanely possible
- tap siege (kill dat oil - pewpew it with cannons if need be, don't waste ammo on players; pop dem evil cannons on the wall or jump onto the ram if you are a tank)

Chances are these averages are weighted in a way and funneled into an overall score - but still checked off/for to ensure that your 'contribution' matches the bare minimum of effort/slack put into the flip.
I could imagine playing objectives to be more juicy until 3* and after that depending on whether you are the one being sieged, or the one doing the sieging.

If you happen to find only white bags in your mails for weeks straight, without greens and blues breaking the pattern rather frequently... well, you don't even reach the contribution levels required to be eligible for green and blue rolls (= do not accumulate bonus rolls for those bags), which in turn means that you are essentially brainafk (= fixiating on one thing in the lakes; e.g.: afk on a BO that is 24/7 uncontested, chasing people across the map but avoiding BOs like the plague).

My 2 cents.

Just gotta add that actually contributing to siege/BOs/zerging gives **** bags in my experience. Ignore keep, only take BOs with opposition and just kill everything you meet= profit. If you get 15ish kills in a short amount of time with around 100 AAO, log off and wait for your bag.

I have played complete zones solo, in 6-12 mans and in warbands with anything from 50-100+++ personal kills and consistently gotten bad bags, nothing seems so be as rewarding as just logging in for 15-30 minutes farming kills with AAO and then logging off.

[Shooshpanzerer]

Yes, the system now is quantity over quality. It's pug friendly, in old system there were a lot of times when organised guilds took all the bags, but in current state it looks like contribution and win/loss is meaningless compared to AOO bonus/penalty and turning the tide is shooting yourself in the foot.

As an example i'll take EU prime Wednesday.

6 pm servertime - 9 pm MSK: Beaver/Invasion roll in numbers, destro having AOO.
7 pm servertime: CNTK, BT, TUP begin events (not sure about Diogenes and Phalanx timing), destro having big AOO, stalemate.
8 pm servertime - 11 pm MSK: Beavers/Invasion mostly log off, small AOO for destro or no AOO, stalemate.
9+ pm servertime - King Ocara logs, organises destro pugs, tide is turning to destro domination.
10 pm servertime - CNTK and BT event ends, big AOO for order.
10+ pm servertime - destro locks zone or tie lock with big AOO for order, white bags because overdog penalty for destro.

Results - all the fights and holding the line earlier against bigger numbers turns against winner.

System actually encourages throwing the zone while you still have AOO instead of fighting to the end and turning the tide, outlasting the enemy.

To be constructive i would like to suggest a personal AOO - maximum AOO for each char in the zone, same as contribution. Checked each 10x of minutes.

[anarchypark]

you choose boring way to play and blame 'least resistance' human nature.
is this game some kind of experiment for human behavior?
well, some ppl enjoy challenging.
'least resistance'
it's just sorry excuse for laziness in my ears.

roll system is not perfect. have some flaw.
why don't you stop exploiting and help fixing it?
good way to start is ' i found this method, have a look'.
not 'system sucks. it's boring. i rather exploit flaws cuz human nature. here is how i do it.'

both provide feedback but completely different way.
not sure why some ppl follow latter way.
is it another human thing?

anyway.
i suspect aao adjustment apply at the lock moment for players still on,
but for logout players it apply at logout moment?
it's one side battle when zone is close to lock. early logout didn't get aao adjustment?
or like k/d ratio, play time is on denominator so when it's short(small) number you get bigger result.
or just rng thing.

[lefze]

i suspect aao adjustment apply at the lock moment for players still on,
but for logout players it apply at logout moment?.

This seems to be the case yes. As for the rest of the post, no idea exactly what you are trying to get at.

[Darosh]

anyway.
i suspect aao adjustment apply at the lock moment for players still on,
but for logout players it apply at logout moment?
it's one side battle when zone is close to lock. early logout didn't get aao adjustment?
or like k/d ratio, play time is on denominator so when it's short(small) number you get bigger result.
or just rng thing.

Pretty sure the AAO is handled this way, yes. The playtime assumption seems reasonable, too.

However, RNG decides whether or not you get a bag - the 'contribution' you gain decides what bags you could get and effectively when you get a bag (by virtue of the bad luck prevention).
E.g.: If you are eligible for gold in four t4 zones in a row you can still get **** over by RNG, in the fifth t4 zone the bonus you accumulated throughout the past four zones gets you the bag IF you are eligible for that kind of bag in that fifth zone - otherwise the bonus will get you the bag the next time you are eligible for it, which might be the n-th zone after you've acquired enough boni for the bag.
Frequently scoring high on 'contribution' reduces the time in between guranteed bags (in a certain tier), provided you score high consistently enough to force the system to actually apply the bonus you've 'stacked' up.
Now, you might aswell score five gold bags in a row because: RNGesus blessed you and you actually were eligible for the bags ('contribution').

I doubt siege participation (siege weapon sponsoring, damage, usage, lord, yadayada) is entirely irrelevant, that'd make gaming the system too easy ~ it might not be as relevant as BOs/kills/playtime(:AAO)/averages(:elapsed time) but surely has some value attached to it, if not only to account for pugs that can't compete in terms of kills.

Aura's approach basicially depends on her getting lucky with the tresholds that are generated by the players in to relation elapsed time. Checking for static valuees would be beyond unreasonable [human intuition tends to find those rather easily] - players are the best RNGenerators and their performance makes a reasonable metric.
Pretty sure his approach nets him more bags during specific timezones - and significantly less during others - given player activity.

[lefze]

I doubt siege participation (siege weapon sponsoring, damage, usage, lord, yadayada) is entirely irrelevant, that'd make gaming the system too easy ~ it might not be as relevant as BOs/kills/playtime(:AAO)/averages(:elapsed time) but surely has some value attached to it, if not only to account for pugs that can't compete in terms of kills.

Seeing as I haven't touched siege weapons and maybe once or twice every x months bother hitting a lord and still consistently pull in bags, I'd say siege is completely irrelevant compared to kills. I mean, it's possible that it accounts for something, but just comparing what I get to certain people that pop oils, cannons and do other siege related things tells me it's all a waste of time. So basically, even if it gives SOMETHING, if you use that route to farm your gear, don't complain about it being slow as ****. Just as it should be imo.

[tionblack]

This system rewards people more than enough it does actually rewards effort less, more casual friendly.

Only thing i can complain is after getting 9 shards over and over i stopped hoping about a new genesis piece.

[Darosh]

So basically, even if it gives SOMETHING, if you use that route to farm your gear, don't complain about it being slow as ****. Just as it should be imo.

Yeah that should go without saying. I am adovacting for a mixed bag of activities ~ as in, if you happen to have an opportunity to tap stuff on your way, do it... especially pugs should.


Abbd.:

This system rewards people more than enough it does actually rewards effort less more casual friendly.

Only thing i can complain is after getting 9 shards over and over i stopped hoping about a new genesis piece.

Salvage stuff and get rich. *cough*

[tionblack]

Spoiler:

So basically, even if it gives SOMETHING, if you use that route to farm your gear, don't complain about it being slow as ****. Just as it should be imo.

Yeah that should go without saying. I am adovacting for a mixed bag of activities ~ as in, if you happen to have an opportunity to tap stuff on your way, do it... especially pugs should.


Abbd.:

This system rewards people more than enough it does actually rewards effort less more casual friendly.

Only thing i can complain is after getting 9 shards over and over i stopped hoping about a new genesis piece.

Salvage stuff and get rich. *cough*

Funny thing is shard has nothing to salvage lol