Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

[Loans]

The only unbalance is this:

Ganking in ORVR
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

Warbands
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

6 man group SCs/orvr
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

Solo scenarios
MDPS = Unviable. The majority of SC's are a complete waste of time, reliant on random group composition. A lot of the time you are unable to even get into melee range without being focused. Reliant on at least 1 healer being in your party. Overall an unenjoyable experience.
RDPS = Viable

somewhat agree, although when you get that Guard + Heals on your squishy WE/WH... godammit it's gonna start raining purple as you snatch deathblows left and right.

but then again, that's how it has always been, even back on live.

There also exist minor differences between the type of MDPS; Mara is very potent choice, same with current WL. Slayer/Choppa give high damage whilst having medium armour, whereas WE/WH gives high damage whilst having light armour...

Honestly I am beginning to think that WE/WH might need a small armour increase to bring them somewhat closer to other MDPS characters, otherwise it's always a good choice for the enemy to pick out the MDPS with weakest armouring and focus that one.

This.
Plus the cooldown on snare make wh/we less useful
another thing melee dps are gear dependent , ranged dps can do good dmg / utility in solo sc even with duelist / devastator

[Ninepaces]

In direct response to op becuase I dont have time to read all the other comments:

In scs:
Destro need to run melee train because pounce and sm m2 is hard counter to sh/sorc. At BEST, a wl or 2 wl pouncing on an rdps requires a tank to be extra vigilant and ready to guard peel. Its easier to cc a tank and preventing him getting to a sorc when he has to run 80 ft to get into guard range. Pounce makes it way too easy to just bypass the tanks and go right into unguarded target. Its just harder on the tanks overall and an unnecessary weakness in what could be a very solid 4 melee/2 healer setup.

Ive felt the way you feel about rerolling rdps before and the answer is simply dont play without a group. Dont solo queue ever. Go do the dishes, go walk the dog, go do the laundry. All of those are more fun and productive than solo queue with melee.

[ToXoS]

roll a squig herder fire throu walls with your pet for imbalanced damage with no range limit.In dragon wake a squig herder killed me from the top of the BRIDGE and i was at the bottom of it which is like min 45 seconds walking.Pet is firing to that much distance when targeted IS VERY GOOD lets all roll SH

When it comes to pets, the WL can do the same.
See? There is balance even in bugs and exploits.

You're talking about a solo perspective, which have no bearings here.
SH is the weakest RDPS of the game. It heavily relies on pets because of this.
So if you think SH does unbalanced damage, I don't even wanna know what you think of SW.
All SW direct damage abilities hit from 18 to 35 % more than SH, and all DoTs hits 15 % more.
And that's without taking VoN into consideration.

So you see, without the pet, SH worth nothing. That's why no SH use All By Meself tactic, even with its 25% damage boost.

From what I understand, you're talking about a SH that had sent his pet to hunt you down. Guess what? that's what the class is designed for.

[Glorian]

...
Ive felt the way you feel about rerolling rdps before and the answer is simply dont play without a group. Dont solo queue ever. Go do the dishes, go walk the dog, go do the laundry. All of those are more fun and productive than solo queue with melee.

Played yesterday in earnest an snb IB in nordland RvR. From one extreme to the other.
First in a pug wb with 9/11 mdps.
Everyone is a solo hero.
Was almost ready to quit.

Then changed into a threeman WL-IB-RP.
Hell that was 90 minutes of more slaughter than 300.

So if you go mdps, go group or go home.

[ToXoS]

The only unbalance is this:

Ganking in ORVR
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

Warbands
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

6 man group SCs/orvr
MDPS = Viable
RDPS = Viable

Solo scenarios
MDPS = Unviable. The majority of SC's are a complete waste of time, reliant on random group composition. A lot of the time you are unable to even get into melee range without being focused. Reliant on at least 1 healer being in your party. Overall an unenjoyable experience.
RDPS = Viable

somewhat agree, although when you get that Guard + Heals on your squishy WE/WH... godammit it's gonna start raining purple as you snatch deathblows left and right.

but then again, that's how it has always been, even back on live.

There also exist minor differences between the type of MDPS; Mara is very potent choice, same with current WL. Slayer/Choppa give high damage whilst having medium armour, whereas WE/WH gives high damage whilst having light armour...

Honestly I am beginning to think that WE/WH might need a small armour increase to bring them somewhat closer to other MDPS characters, otherwise it's always a good choice for the enemy to pick out the MDPS with weakest armouring and focus that one.

WE/WH do not need an armour increase...
They have the best defence of the game: turning invisible.
And when I see a WH runing in stealth in front of a whole WB undetected before jumping on a squishy, well...
I'm beginning to think that maybe stealth needs to be more easy to detect, because that's just BS.

[porkstar]

So, buff WE?

YES please!

WE don't need buff. Nicelook just needs to make a video and give y'all some pro instructional classes.

[Aurandilaz]

So, buff WE?

YES please!

WE don't need buff. Nicelook just needs to make a video and give y'all some pro instructional classes.

is that some clever way to say "l2pnoob"?

WE/WH do not need an armour increase...
They have the best defence of the game: turning invisible.
And when I see a WH runing in stealth in front of a whole WB undetected before jumping on a squishy, well...
I'm beginning to think that maybe stealth needs to be more easy to detect, because that's just BS.

oh right, that's why all pro premade run with a WE/WH instead of Mara/WL or Choppa/Slayer. That stealth really gives them such awesome group utility. But I guess no one cares about group utility because this is balanced on 1v1 or how was it again...
That awesome 30 sec cooldown stealth-of-awesomeness makes them the single best mdps you can pick for your premade, all maras are totally jelly.

[ToXoS]

So, buff WE?

YES please!

WE don't need buff. Nicelook just needs to make a video and give y'all some pro instructional classes.

is that some clever way to say "l2pnoob"?

WE/WH do not need an armour increase...
They have the best defence of the game: turning invisible.
And when I see a WH runing in stealth in front of a whole WB undetected before jumping on a squishy, well...
I'm beginning to think that maybe stealth needs to be more easy to detect, because that's just BS.

oh right, that's why all pro premade run with a WE/WH instead of Mara/WL or Choppa/Slayer. That stealth really gives them such awesome group utility. But I guess no one cares about group utility because this is balanced on 1v1 or how was it again...
That awesome 30 sec cooldown stealth-of-awesomeness makes them the single best mdps you can pick for your premade, all maras are totally jelly.

WH/WE were NEVER classes about group utility. I don't even know why you're talking about that.
People knows this, and still, there's plenty of WH and WE on both sides.
Like you said, if you want to play with a competitive 6-man premade as a MDPS, there is better classes for that.
That doesn't mean that a WH/WE is useless, or that it needs an armor buff, or any kind of buff really.

If you want these classes to have more group utility, go ahead and make a proposal.
But you will need to entirely redesign the classes for that. Good luck.

[Ugle]

SH is the weakest RDPS of the game. It heavily relies on pets because of this.
So if you think SH does unbalanced damage, I don't even wanna know what you think of SW.
All SW direct damage abilities hit from 18 to 35 % more than SH, and all DoTs hits 15 % more.
And that's without taking VoN into consideration.

So you see, without the pet, SH worth nothing. That's why no SH use All By Meself tactic, even with its 25% damage boost.

Lol

Not even gonna take the crosscareerbalance into consideration in this reply, but this is not correcet.

The SW does more dmg from skills because the SH got the squig doing ~20% of the shs dmg. Totally it is pretty much the same, with some variations, where the situation defines who got the better deal. (Sustained dmg vs burst dmg, range, cast time setbacks etc etc)

The reason why "none" uses ABM is that the SH got better tactics to use.

Many of the SHs cc and tools comes with the squig, but if you wanna compare where it matters, when bursting down in a M2 situation, you might as well kill your squig up front for the extra 25% dmg increase from ABM, then resummon the squig after.

Sounds like win - win to me, but then again, you got even better tactics to use so...

Using ABM does not stop you from using your squig or your squig reliant abilities

Also VoN got a cooldown just like SH pet m3 and pet increased aa dmg.

[ToXoS]

SH is the weakest RDPS of the game. It heavily relies on pets because of this.
So if you think SH does unbalanced damage, I don't even wanna know what you think of SW.
All SW direct damage abilities hit from 18 to 35 % more than SH, and all DoTs hits 15 % more.
And that's without taking VoN into consideration.

So you see, without the pet, SH worth nothing. That's why no SH use All By Meself tactic, even with its 25% damage boost.

Lol

Not even gonna take the crosscareerbalance into consideration in this reply, but this is not correcet.

The SW does more dmg from skills because the SH got the squig doing ~20% of the shs dmg. Totally it is pretty much the same, with some variations, where the situation defines who got the better deal. (Sustained dmg vs burst dmg, range, cast time setbacks etc etc)

The reason why "none" uses ABM is that the SH got better tactics to use.

Many of the SHs cc and tools comes with the squig, but if you wanna compare where it matters, when bursting down in a M2 situation, you might as well kill your squig up front for the extra 25% dmg increase from ABM, then resummon the squig after.

Sounds like win - win to me, but then again, you got even better tactics to use so...

Using ABM does not stop you from using your squig or your squig reliant abilities

Also VoN got a cooldown just like SH pet m3 and pet increased aa dmg.

I agree with everything you said. Maybe I should have wrote "SH is the weakest RDPS of the game without its pets". My bad.