PVP seems a bit too 'bursty'.

[Miszczu5647]

Spoiler:

Fully support you saupreusse. Hate those skill. They make everything so flat. And learn you laziness
I hate them so much that I don't use them on my Shaman and Witch Elf. A lot more fun when you win.

Playing WE without stealth and Shaman without hots, may also add some new shades in your game experiences xd.

Partially you have right because shaman with Fury of Da Green (and my current rr) can not afford DSU. So no hot
And if you mentioned no stealth... hmm... when the see WE out of stealth they don't run More... they even attack. Don't need to chase them then


@spikespiegel84 It's nothing to do with upset. I don't use those skill since T4 release. For me they kill flavour of classes. I play for fun not to be proplayer. With them it is soooooo booooring, without them I have fun. So my goal is achieved

[Luth]

Classes are not balansed, and they will never be. People pick up RD/CW to feel rekt in smale scale pvp, theres no need in RD/CW in 20 min 6/6 fights and/or PugWB facerolling.

Cool, then i guess no one outside of 1 vs 1, PuG vs PuG and 6 vs PuG will miss it.

After all proposals and changes you will probably make someday, those who are intrested will follow the meta, like now they are leveling engies, shammys and SMs. Personaly i will log my runnie and enslot dwarf core tactic, so i can have 1sec KD on me, facing WE. 1 sec KD, sounds amazing.

That's a fine story and i'm sure every RP has reserved a slot for this mandatory tactic (btw 3 * 0.5 = 1.5). Unfortunately i can't see what it has to do with my post. Nevertheless i'm looking forward to see this kind of argumentation on the proposal(s).
Until then.

[Thayli]

Spoiler:

Don't forget the completely non-game-breaking renown abilities of Resolute Defense and Cleansing Winds! Only the pros use them oh so good!

Problem is that these 2 abilities are must-haves on a lot of classes, which is a good indicator that there's a serious design problem in this game. CC is too plentiful, too strong and too easily applied. I don't think RD/CW and immunity timers are fun, but they're necessary. Only way to make them not so is to nerf CC as a whole.

Yes, the problem is that they were implemented and most people can't imagine to play without them anymore even if the RoR environment is different from WAR. It was the same with "trivial blows" and crit rates.

I don't know what "nerf CC as whole" means, but i think reverting the nonsense from patch 1.4.7 to to a former state when tanks mostly had 3 second and melee DD had 2 second knockdowns might be a good idea.
As stated by the mythic devs in the notes "These changes have been applied as part of the first phase of a Career Balance cycle"; there was one other non-CC patch after that and then came the silent death. No one knows anything about the big plan and why giving tanks and DDs the same knockdown durations might be a good idea, but it must have been something to do with feelings ("we do feel there are some standards that should be in place with regards to these categories"), but probably no awareness about the cooperation of different archetypes in WAR.

This should also affect range knockdowns ofc and the marauder AOE knockdown should stay at 2 seconds maximum as well as "Cave in" on 3 seconds, even if they were longer before the patch.

When there is more time to mod the balance proposals, i will create 2 proposals about this, because i think that the existence of both renown abilities has a very big impact on the general game balance and might lead to fallacies when classes are balanced.

What I meant by nerfing CC is something like the following. Severely nerf the duration of AoE CC and slightly nerf the durations of existing single-target CC. Increase the cooldown on both by a large amount. In return completely do away with immunities (barring some highly specific cases, maybe). These changes would also reduce much of the power of CW/RD. I'm not sure if this would be a balanced or "fun" change, but something along those lines might be a good step in raising the skill ceiling of the game overall, as well as lowering the level of frustration the current implementation of CC gives. Because lets face it, 5s staggers, ranged knockdowns, etc... are, while maybe not imbalanced, highly frustrating. It would be something I am willing to try out, at any rate.

[Telen]

RD & CW as well as the band aid of TB & FS was just Mythic completely giving up. Instead of balancing they just said **** it we will just dumb it down and let people have access to everything. Like most things Mythic were doing at the time it was just laziness as they had given up on balance. If it was me Id return to the original renown spec. From when the devs actually were trying and had a vision for the game. After all isnt that what this is trying to make that original vision true. Yes that even includes the rp stuff of morale gain for single race partes and for killing races you hate. You know the actual fun stuff that mythic sucked out of the game.

[porkstar]

CW and RD are a bit of a catch-22 for me. On one hand, its nice for a smaller party that plays together well to have abilities that can equalize a bad zerg. CW and RD can be good for this. On the other hand they can be used as a "get out of jail free" card after making a poor decision. As a DoT class, I've seen waaaaay too many DoTs disappear as an enemy flees after a failed engagement. I personally don't use them but maybe it's time? From my understanding these abilities are not just an issue of balancing classes but additionally balancing for all the people who like to play the game such as; solo, 2-3 peoples, 6 person, WB, zergs. The smaller the scale, the more effective these abilities become.

[porkstar]

Personaly i will log my runnie and enslot dwarf core tactic, so i can have 1sec KD on me, facing WE. 1 sec KD, sounds amazing.

I play a RP and the ONLY time I ever slot this is when roaming with 2-6 people and I know there are a bunch of WEs out there soloing with CW and RD.

[Jaycub]

It's not so much CW/RD being better in small scale, or being some kind of equalizer allowing small group to fight larger ones.

It's just the fact that these small groups are guild six mans filled with good players taking advantages of CW/RD fighting half awake scrubs in some zerb WB who aren't speccing for RD/CW. If everyone in that pug warband had RD/CW it would be pretty damn hard for that 6 man to make the house of cards fall since everyone would have a get out of jail free card to wipe out HD's, cutting claws, sorc/bw rotatations etc... then just smash them with numbers advantage.

[Dalgrimar]

It's not so much CW/RD being better in small scale, or being some kind of equalizer allowing small group to fight larger ones.

It's just the fact that these small groups are guild six mans filled with good players taking advantages of CW/RD fighting half awake scrubs in some zerb WB who aren't speccing for RD/CW. If everyone in that pug warband had RD/CW it would be pretty damn hard for that 6 man to make the house of cards fall since everyone would have a get out of jail free card to wipe out HD's, cutting claws, sorc/bw rotatations etc... then just smash them with numbers advantage.

So you want things changed in favour of the "scrub zerg" or?
People not wanting to improve or adapt shouldnt be spoonfed.
I kinda feel RD and CW isnt THAT healthy but RD is very needed for tank class tbh.

[Jaycub]

I don't like consumables or anything with longer than 60 sec CD in any game. And I especially don't like RD when we already have insane 30sec immunity timers for CC.

It's just a personal vendetta I guess. It all just feels so cheesy to me and I wish I could spend my renown points on other things instead of the same stuff to stay competitive.

[porkstar]

It's not so much CW/RD being better in small scale, or being some kind of equalizer allowing small group to fight larger ones.

It's just the fact that these small groups are guild six mans filled with good players taking advantages of CW/RD fighting half awake scrubs in some zerb WB who aren't speccing for RD/CW. If everyone in that pug warband had RD/CW it would be pretty damn hard for that 6 man to make the house of cards fall since everyone would have a get out of jail free card to wipe out HD's, cutting claws, sorc/bw rotatations etc... then just smash them with numbers advantage.

It makes sense what you say. Basically then, it makes these abilities must-have for everyone OR must-have for no one. So why not post a disclaimer when downloading the game and speccing renown ranks that Cleansing Winds and Resolute Defense are highly suggested if not mandatory abilities to acquire as soon as your renown rank allows? Or just give them to everyone? <----rhetorical questions. Currently, the abilities are game altering for those that are "in the know" and have earned the renown ranks to spec them. So really one argument is, are these abilities a proper reward for those that have earned the experience and renown? Another question is, do they benefit certain classes and group configurations more than others? Its relevant because these abilities are extremely powerful.