Which class would you like to see in the Balance Forum?

[zazie]

So basically they just needed an overpowered set bonus to be good. And that would also mean healers like DoK got a shitty one that somehow drug them down to Zealots level?

I don't really see how survivability would make or break the class, if DoK is superior now in survive than it would be just as superior at RR80 no? It's not like there is a threshold you hit pre softcap where stacking defense becomes pointless? And even with full SoV I really doubt you are softcapping both your healing and def stats.

Is it overpowered if it put the on par with Dok/WP at end game in terms of output capability and somewhat closer to survivability?

Survivability is Numero Uno. If you die in 3 seconds, it doesn't matter how OP your abilities are, you get rez'd and are immediately less effective for 30 seconds.

Z/RP can't just stand there and chain AoE detaunt an entire train and get cross healed/cleansed and faceroll their keyboard and stay alive. Even with the soverign/+90 sets it became even easier to heal/stay alive as a Dok since you basically had infinite SE a long as someone was hitting you, which isn't hard to do in oRvR or in scens.

We aren't referring to stat caps, soft or hard, we are explaining to you the shortcomings of the class and how they evolved with gear changes that pertained to their ability to heal/sustain healing.

I've played a Z/RP since release, I've seen all the nerfs, buffs, highs, lows and exploits of a RP/Zealot. I was one of the first who figured out Martyrs proc worked along side Crit Heal/WP and figured out with guard I could run around the front line and heal my group for 2k hp every 2 seconds without even pressing a button. It took mythic 1 day to fix that when my guild group was running around with 2 healers on guard healing for 4k every 2 seconds and literally unable to be killed and facerolling over warbandswith the current game states meta PBAERIFT tactic.

Mythic didn't implement the Sov changes for no reason, it was probably the closest the game was to balanced at any one point, and now we are back to square one with gear discrepancies which make certain classes seem much less viable than they are.

[analoghermit]

I'm Jon Snow :^)

[Jaycub]

uote]

Is it overpowered if it put the on par with Dok/WP at end game in terms of output capability and somewhat closer to survivability?

Survivability is Numero Uno. If you die in 3 seconds, it doesn't matter how OP your abilities are, you get rez'd and are immediately less effective for 30 seconds.

Z/RP can't just stand there and chain AoE detaunt an entire train and get cross healed/cleansed and faceroll their keyboard and stay alive. Even with the soverign/+90 sets it became even easier to heal/stay alive as a Dok since you basically had infinite SE a long as someone was hitting you, which isn't hard to do in oRvR or in scens.

We aren't referring to stat caps, soft or hard, we are explaining to you the shortcomings of the class and how they evolved with gear changes that pertained to their ability to heal/sustain healing.

I've played a Z/RP since release, I've seen all the nerfs, buffs, highs, lows and exploits of a RP/Zealot. I was one of the first who figured out Martyrs proc worked along side Crit Heal/WP and figured out with guard I could run around the front line and heal my group for 2k hp every 2 seconds without even pressing a button. It took mythic 1 day to fix that when my guild group was running around with 2 healers on guard healing for 4k every 2 seconds and literally unable to be killed and facerolling over warbandswith the current game states meta PBAERIFT tactic.

Mythic didn't implement the Sov changes for no reason, it was probably the closest the game was to balanced at any one point, and now we are back to square one with gear discrepancies which make certain classes seem much less viable than they are.

Do you think the game should balanced around gear sets? Something the devs have said they don't want to do, and is the main reason inf rewards and resistance set bonuses are not getting changed.

And your 3rd paragraph is saying that dok/WP will still be king in sov gear, why run zealot?

[Fulkan]

So basically they just needed an overpowered set bonus to be good. And that would also mean healers like DoK got a shitty one that somehow drug them down to Zealots level?

I don't really see how survivability would make or break the class, if DoK is superior now in survive than it would be just as superior at RR80 no? It's not like there is a threshold you hit pre softcap where stacking defense becomes pointless? And even with full SoV I really doubt you are softcapping both your healing and def stats.

bra, trust me, the difference on the DoK vs Zealot when you're attacking me - is rather insane.

You need your whole assist train attacking my DOK for me to call out for assistance in the back lines.

All it takes is your WL attacking my Zealot for me to call for assistance.

That tells you everything.

For someone who has a high skill cap - the DoK is way more practical, useful and survivable. It allows you to push up with your DPS so they can keep that derps pressure on, without you having to worry about getting popped in one GCD. Zealots can't do that. Not only that - but the overall sustained healing from the DoK is god mode for a single group.


I just worry that both the DoK and the WP are going to get nerfed instead of the other healers fixed. Then we're gonna be running three guarded DPS metas like bosses.

[Jaycub]

Well that's what I was saying, just wondering why people think gear is magically going to break the double dok meta and somehow makes dok/zealot the best setup.

[Eathisword]

#1 I don't get your point about a secret. I didn'T say it was. I just pointed out that most IB don'T spec like this. But yeah, if it makes you feel strong and manly, go ahead and discredit my point by attacking me instead of what i said.

Where did I attack you in the single line I wrote? I got the vibe that you think most IBs play "the wrong spec" and the class would be better if everybody ran yours.

Noted ! I am a bit edgy today (and generally kind of a prick). So don't mind me.

Every spec I run is pretty much common knowledge, except that I don't take the heal debuff, because I find it not so useful.

Most of the IB i know play brotherhood because they think the healdebuff and earthshatter are ''mandatory'' (I get that pmed to me all the time). So yes, I thought maybe they felt going full vengeance was not an option. Probably It was hubristic of me to think that. But then again, most of the IB I see/inspect, seem to stack strength/crit, which is dumb imo, cause stacking WS up to a point (30-35% penetration WITHOUT the buff) is more valuable against pretty much everyone except WE, sorc and gobbos... all of which you don't see in 6v6. And no, I don't believe every 2H IB tried high WS. Maybe that's hubristic too, but meh, we cant all be Saints.

So yes ! I do believe IB's damage is close to SM, except on tanks (the difference against 2h tanks is actually huge). I tested it (leveled a SM and geared him out to try). And I don't really understand why people don't think it is... the 2 options being : #1 I am a retarded idiot (most likely option since everybody disagree with me) or #2 IBs need to L2Spec properly for damage. You obviously chose answer 1, I am kinda forced to pick answer 2.

[Lileldys]

So basically they just needed an overpowered set bonus to be good. And that would also mean healers like DoK got a shitty one that somehow drug them down to Zealots level?

I don't really see how survivability would make or break the class, if DoK is superior now in survive than it would be just as superior at RR80 no? It's not like there is a threshold you hit pre softcap where stacking defense becomes pointless? And even with full SoV I really doubt you are softcapping both your healing and def stats.

bra, trust me, the difference on the DoK vs Zealot when you're attacking me - is rather insane.

You need your whole assist train attacking my DOK for me to call out for assistance in the back lines.

All it takes is your WL attacking my Zealot for me to call for assistance.

That tells you everything.

For someone who has a high skill cap - the DoK is way more practical, useful and survivable. It allows you to push up with your DPS so they can keep that derps pressure on, without you having to worry about getting popped in one GCD. Zealots can't do that. Not only that - but the overall sustained healing from the DoK is god mode for a single group.


I just worry that both the DoK and the WP are going to get nerfed instead of the other healers fixed. Then we're gonna be running three guarded DPS metas like bosses.

Are we missing that double dps covenant from dok and g-cleanse pushes it ahead of dok/zealot. 44? initiative and a ritual just doesn't compare.

Wouldn't be supprised to see a DoK/WP SE/RF nerf on sovereign gear here. Plus an ever looming nerf to the classes

[Dabbart]

Jesus. I go to sleep and this is at 4 pages. Get off work, and 23. Judging by the last page, the middle aint worth reading...

If I get a chance, I will tally up the "Other" vote/posts and see if I can make another Poll to help clarify.

[Eathisword]

Well that's what I was saying, just wondering why people think gear is magically going to break the double dok meta and somehow makes dok/zealot the best setup.

It doesn't. WP/dok will still be better. BUT, and I think RP benefit more from that, because of the racial armor tactic, in Sov+, it was possible to get around 5k armor on RP, while having 50%+ crit (ty lotd, 33% crit staff), which in turn made you a freaking beast of a trampoline at making your WP shine even more because Blessing of Grugni' was up 100% of the time on everyone you healed.

That 5k armor is important because it lets you above the 3500 softcap even when debuffed. + you still had tons of willpower/heal power so stacking it was pointless.

Then there is AP. In Sov+ you could have tons of AP regen (just the staff was +8 iirc), which made you capable of spamming cleanse with the tactic without running out of AP in 5s like it is now. That was valuable to the point of breaking the meta double for some people. Dok/zealot was very popular in RR80+ setups.

@Dabart, we are just passing the time until we can log and mutually smash our faces with hammers

[Annaise16]

Both classes suffer from the current gear caps as they literally need RR 70+ to fully blossom. That's not going to be possible anytime soon - if ever.

Some needs to explain this to me, how is higher tiers of gear gonna to change class balance? Every gear set for each class has the exact same stat distribution and the only thing that changes is procs or non stat related set bonuses and potentially hitting softcaps for certain stats allowing you to branch out into secondary power stats or defense. But the latter being something that every class will do so those gaps won't just vanish.

AP regen and SE/RF regen were massive on the respective sovereign healing sets to the point where ap/SE/RF management was no longer a concern for the classes.