Which class would you like to see in the Balance Forum?

[peterthepan3]

They don't need so much love, but they most definitely need love more than any other dps.
There's a reason why no 6man will take a magus/engi over any other dps, and this should not be the case. Flaws with the classes have been addressed a thousand times over, and all anyone wants is to put them in a position where they can function as a Rdps for their group and not hinder said group by not having a sorc or squig. 'Function as a rdps' doesn't mean 'give sorc dps'.

[Jaycub]

And at the same time no serious 6 man runs RDPS at all, even sorcs/bw (my opinion of course)

CCM ran a 3-2-1 group in t3 that I remember, but if you watch their vids their knight absolutely outplayed the other tanks when they won.

And with BO/SM doing retarded damage you are are hurting yourself by running one tank anymore, might as well just do a 2-2-2 with BO/SM and get and tanky DPS with guard and tank morales/mechanics.

[peterthepan3]

..but a sh/sorc/bw/sw can all function well as main dps in a group, no? As shown by players such as teefz, elrean, korze, niauu, nykky, xiuxiu, etc.

A magus/engi can never function as a main dps due to slow dmg/weak dots/clunkiness. I always envisioned sorc as huge burst (WoW mage), Sh as a very mobile, consistent dps with debilitating debufss, and magus as DOTs mixed with burst (burst being reliant on dots - a la affli locks) while not being as mobile as the others, but being very potent when stationary.

Personally i agree that shaman should be on this list.

[Morf]

They don't need so much love, but they most definitely need love more than any other dps.
There's a reason why no 6man will take a magus/engi over any other dps, and this should not be the case. Flaws with the classes have been addressed a thousand times over, and all anyone wants is to put them in a position where they can function as a Rdps for their group and not hinder said group by not having a sorc or squig. 'Function as a rdps' doesn't mean 'give sorc dps'.

The game doesnt revolve around 6 mans, and furthermore they do ok in this setting, they do better as a dps then a shaman does as a healer compared to zealot/dok.
Again they are not designed to be the huge damage dealer rdps, they function just fine as a rdps, i remember many an epic magus from live some who top damage an db in nearly every sc/zone, some who were more tanky then tanks, the reason they are not as you want them to be(sorc burst) is because again they bring more then just damage.

[Shadowgurke]

I think purely in terms of performance adjustments (rather than playstyle changes like engi/mag not being a pullbot) Black Guard needs some real buffs. Zealot and WE need small tweaks

[Jaycub]

I agree that magus/engineer are on the bottom rung of RDPS, I'm just saying that changes to say how guard functions could totally mix things up, or changes to critical damage, or CC etc... could drastically shake things up. And changes made to magus to make them fit now could make them totally OP or useless again after those kinds of changes.

Probably should of said something about that in my post above. Also is there any videos of those people beating another guild running 2-2-2 melee trains in some kind of organized fashion like the CCM videos from T3 (as if t3 is any kind of indication of balance I know). I know they are good players and I have seen them and been on the receiving end of them racking up kills in casual scenarios.

And even so, without any real scene and many guilds running it's hard to gauge balance at all. A RDPS 6 man could be way more skilled than a group running a meta comp and beat them, but just one instance or a few is really just anecdotal evidence at best. Everything is really just your word against others until there is enough people participating to create a real study of balance at that level.

[Morf]

..but a sh/sorc/bw/sw can all function well as main dps in a group, no? As shown by players such as teefz, elrean, korze, niauu, nykky, xiuxiu, etc.

A magus/engi can never function as a main dps due to slow dmg/weak dots/clunkiness. I always envisioned sorc as huge burst (WoW mage), Sh as a very mobile, consistent dps with debilitating debufss, and magus as DOTs mixed with burst (burst being reliant on dots - a la affli locks) while not being as mobile as the others, but being very potent when stationary.

Personally i agree that shaman should be on this list.

You hit the nail on the head, magus isnt designed to be the main dps (atleast st dps), sorc/bw/sh/sw are terrible stationary rdps, magus/engie isnt, classes are different, you just want sorc damage on a magus. this shouldnt happen because they play a different role then just being no1 dps.
Sure a few tweaks to the class but nothing overly major as some ppl make you think is needed to the class.

Magus are not meant to be sorcs, sooner ppl realise this the better.

[Penril]

And at the same time no serious 6 man runs RDPS at all, even sorcs/bw (my opinion of course)

CCM ran a 3-2-1 group in t3 that I remember, but if you watch their vids their knight absolutely outplayed the other tanks when they won.

And with BO/SM doing retarded damage you are are hurting yourself by running one tank anymore, might as well just do a 2-2-2 with BO/SM and get and tanky DPS with guard and tank morales/mechanics.

Do you mean for 6v6 or for RvR/SCs? Because 1 3 2 with rDPS is totally viable in the latter. In fact I actually prefer rDPS for zerg-busting.

I find it interesting that you mentioned "their knight outplayed..." for 2 reasons:

1) It is easy to outplay other tanks when you play a KotBS. The class is ridiculously easy-mode.

2) KotBS is pretty much mandatory in a 1 3 2. Uncleansable (by Dok) AoE snare, superpunt, on-demand KD, No Escape! make it miles better than SM/IB (for a 1 3 2 group with rDPS that constantly needs to kite). It doesn't matter how much damage the SM can do; he lacks proper CC (which is the reason why so BO/SM were considered UP on live).

I think 1 should be addressed not necessarily by nerfing the KotBs, but by making it harder to play. Change all his passive **** and make it active so the KotBS actually has to play the game in order to buff/debuff, instead of the current situation (as it was on live) where he can be OP just by activating a few auras, guarding someone and then /follow.

2 should be addressed in a different way, giving more CC to the classes who lack it, until finally any tank can be viable in a 1 3 2. But probably not yet, since people seem to consider SM/BO OP. Let's wait until everyone and their mothers are running around with Sov gear, rr80 and then you will see that the extra damage from BO/SM becomes meh against decent enemies, and realize that the thing that makes a tank better than another is CC.

[Jaycub]

The game doesnt revolve around 6 mans, and furthermore they do ok in this setting, they do better as a dps then a shaman does as a healer compared to zealot/dok.
Again they are not designed to be the huge damage dealer rdps, they function just fine as a rdps, i remember many an epic magus from live some who top damage an db in nearly every sc/zone, some who were more tanky then tanks, the reason they are not as you want them to be(sorc burst) is because again they bring more then just damage.

Like it's already stated before many times damage/dbs in ORvR or pug scs means nothing in terms of balance. Insert pics of wingz outhealing people on his SM, or DPS zealot getting top dbs and damage etc...

The game revolves around the T4 ORvR campaign IMO, and that includes all levels of fighting and the environments. Engineer and magus perform VERY well at keeps, and large scale closed/choked environments. But the game is also played at smaller scales very often, and they are all but exempt in those areas aside from niche pull groups in terms of their effectiveness compared to other classes.


I think what most of us are asking for is for every class to perform well, or have multiples niches in all scales and environments of the game. Not for the game to revolve around 6v6.

[Morf]

Probably should of said something about that in my post above. Also is there any videos of those people beating another guild running 2-2-2 melee trains in some kind of organized fashion like the CCM videos from T3 (as if t3 is any kind of indication of balance I know). I know they are good players and I have seen them and been on the receiving end of them racking up kills in casual scenarios.

One thing to take into account is the difference between an order 3/2/1 and a destro 3/2/1, especially in t3.
As order you have 2 rkd's, pounce and the best tank in the game, you do a 3/2/1 on destro and you are going to have a very very hard time kiting pressure and mdps focus.

CCM are a great group of players but they were running a group with amazing synergy, you will not have such success with a 3/2/1 group on destro.