Which class would you like to see in the Balance Forum?

[roadkillrobin]

Personally I think by allowing Engies and Magus pets and turrets to follow the caster could do alot to help them as the moast anoying part of playing em is having to consistantly waste ap and gcd to resummon and repositioning your pets.

[Malgaroth]

Well, let's do a wide sweep first, so far as Magus is concerned. The mid-range is fine, so long as we scale things up alongside that. The Magus should have higher defensive stats naturally than other rdps to account for this.
But the Magus has two things going for it. Niche AoE CC, and AoE DotS that are always cleansed. Let's fuse the two. Mass soft CC or disables. Have Pandemonium have a 25% chance per target hit to silence for 5 seconds, and perhaps make the percentage chance rise for each DoT on the target. Have Seed of Chaos sap AP while it's ticking. Make Indigo Fire of Change cause a stagger or knockdown on last tick instead of restoring AP.

Alternatively, make the failure that is the daemonology tree work. The Shotgun/Frontline mage, super buff the damage values there and make the self-buffs worth a damn, something to keep you alive at least long enough to drop your payload on the enemy and get out. As it stands it's only any good for the rift, when a Sorc can do even more damage with less risk in the backline.

[Eathisword]

only thing zealot/runie are missing is aoe detaunt

They have one : Grimnir's Shield, reduce all damage to 50% for 10s. If anything, WP/DoK infinite AoE detaunt needs to be nerf into the ground. Last thing this game needs is more unkillable healers.

@OP, any class and any changes as long as these changes help to break the double anything meta, i.e : double dok, double mara, double slayer, etc.

In a good design, any double comp should get stomped into the ground instead of being OP.

[Jaycub]

I also had to vote for Magus to be looked at. All their builds seem so interesting and unique, but feel lackluster when your playing it. I don't even know where to begin with their balancing. They just need more damage or more survivability. Mine feels like a glass cannon, with no cannon, but hes fun to play. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Magus/engineer surviviability is fine, the only thing I would change is make flak jacket and magus mirror a buff that losses effectiveness each tick of physical damage taken >250, rather than an enchantment, and obviously a bit stronger than it is now.

The problem with DPS on these classes is their mechanics are really clunky. Magus DPS is actually really good... if you could reliably keep your target in mist at all times, and as long as your pet is in rage for the buff and in attack range for their debuffs and whatnot. Abilities like engineer grenades that should be castable on the move, along with pets.

Of course you could instantly make them viable by slapping on a 50% increased crit damage tactic, and I also think that says a lot about the state of the game atm.

There are a lot more engineers running around than magi. They are much more visible, and in RvR where people don't often have solid healing in pug warbands, they are very effective with keg, and aoe dots.

There is also morale 2, unshakable focus which means people will see big crits now and then. So engi is a bit more visible.

It is actually really hard for some people to understand that getting big numbers in a scenario, or having a lot of killing blows in RvR is meaningless. Anyone can do it versus unhealed enemies / pug groups.

You are right that engineer has better morales, are more visible, and keg is really awesome in RvR. But I don't think we are really arguing that magus/Engineer needs buffs based on their warband vs warband or keep seige performance in ORvR, but rather smaller scale stuff like scenarios.

Engineer has to deal with the amazingly """"balanced"""" DoK M2, and double dok meta (group cleanse spam) on destro right now that magus doesn't have to deal with. Magus also deals magical damage for which it has the strongest class of debuffs for each type (glean, pink horror). Whereas the engineer single target damage relies a lot on physical damage.

[roadkillrobin]

Well, let's do a wide sweep first, so far as Magus is concerned. The mid-range is fine, so long as we scale things up alongside that. The Magus should have higher defensive stats naturally than other rdps to account for this.
But the Magus has two things going for it. Niche AoE CC, and AoE DotS that are always cleansed. Let's fuse the two. Mass soft CC or disables. Have Pandemonium have a 25% chance per target hit to silence for 5 seconds, and perhaps make the percentage chance rise for each DoT on the target. Have Seed of Chaos sap AP while it's ticking. Make Indigo Fire of Change cause a stagger or knockdown on last tick instead of restoring AP.

Alternatively, make the failure that is the daemonology tree work. The Shotgun/Frontline mage, super buff the damage values there and make the self-buffs worth a damn, something to keep you alive at least long enough to drop your payload on the enemy and get out. As it stands it's only any good for the rift, when a Sorc can do even more damage with less risk in the backline.

Deamonology and Tinkerer specs are perfectly fine, (except for the Magus m4 wich is never gonna get used over their m2)
It's a pbaoe dmg build that have great synnergy and decent dps output in warbands. Were the class is lacking is in small scale were pretty much any other dps class will do a better job.

[TenTonHammer]

When you say small scale, are people not using magus in 1-3-2 bomb groups?

Rift into kd into mass AoE?

[peterthepan3]

Well, let's do a wide sweep first, so far as Magus is concerned. The mid-range is fine, so long as we scale things up alongside that. The Magus should have higher defensive stats naturally than other rdps to account for this.
But the Magus has two things going for it. Niche AoE CC, and AoE DotS that are always cleansed. Let's fuse the two. Mass soft CC or disables. Have Pandemonium have a 25% chance per target hit to silence for 5 seconds, and perhaps make the percentage chance rise for each DoT on the target. Have Seed of Chaos sap AP while it's ticking. Make Indigo Fire of Change cause a stagger or knockdown on last tick instead of restoring AP.

Alternatively, make the failure that is the daemonology tree work. The Shotgun/Frontline mage, super buff the damage values there and make the self-buffs worth a damn, something to keep you alive at least long enough to drop your payload on the enemy and get out. As it stands it's only any good for the rift, when a Sorc can do even more damage with less risk in the backline.

While nice in theory, would become a burden and nuisance if you're giving out free immunities and potentially wasting opportune moments to shut down an enemy player.

Rift specs are fine and viable. Problem is each respective class's middle tree (fluff aoe), cleansing nullifying majority of dmg, weak dots and clunky st dps.

[roadkillrobin]

3 dps spamming AoE arn't gonna kill anything except for a couple of clueless pugs so no. Also the unguarded dps gonna get insta killed against a premade wich means you have even less dps.

[Eathisword]

When you say small scale, are people not using magus in 1-3-2 bomb groups?

Rift into kd into mass AoE?

that doesn't work in small scale... Its a good pug meat grinder. Its a terrible 6v6 comp. Pulling a kotbs, a IB and 2 slayers onto a magus and giving them both immunities for 30s isnt a great gameplan.

[Jaycub]

When you say small scale, are people not using magus in 1-3-2 bomb groups?

Rift into kd into mass AoE?

My guild runs a bw-bw-eng-sm/knight-wp-wp bomb group on order, and it's REALLY fun, but it only works because you shred pugs and non 2-2-2 melee trains. If we get in against one of the guilds we fight seriously in 6v6 and they are running their meta group we lose 6v6 obviously, but in a 12v12 scenario we have to kill their pugs at the beginning of the fight and snowball them 12v6 to win.

We are building a bomb group on destro now as well, but it's only going to be slightly better since double DoK and BO being better than double WP and knight. Sorc bubble tactic seems like it will be awesome too, and if IG still stacks with itself then it's really no contest. Choppa could be worked into it as well, but the CD on chop fasta is a real ball buster, the 20 sec duration is kind of a non factor as if the whole premise is to kill everything as fast as possible.


But that's it, magus/engineer are regulated to a very niche role that requires a very specific comp and GOOD coordination (voice comms) to pull off at it's best. This throws any solo, new players, or players with guilds that don't have the comp or hell even want to run these types of groups under the bus.

About voice comms, I do think it's basically mandatory for this type of group. Everyone including healers needs to know when the pull is coming, need to know where it is. The engineer/magus need to know if people are not ready, they need to communicate if they have a KD for that pull, what morales we have. And even the healers can do decent initial damage with things like smite thanks to 75% BW procs etc... Not to mention running with 1 tank things can go south quick, if our healers are getting pressured and we go all in on a pull without clearing that up it's suicide.

Really wish this game had built in VOIP :^)