Mara vs WL

[Scrilian]

AP were never a problem within a group in which you have/had at least 1 kotbs combined with wp/rp or wp/wp.
Slayer provides an AoE CD increase which is probably the best defensive tool in the game.

I find the hyperbole here quite funny indeed.

Anyway, maybe merge Revenge with Pack Synergy? It's like slotting 2 tactics for a pet class even to work. Loner can use some work too, since the loss of pet and PS results in lack of cc and burst.

[Bretin]

I find the hyperbole here quite funny indeed.

Anyway, maybe merge Revenge with Pack Synergy? It's like slotting 2 tactics for a pet class even to work. Loner can use some work too, since the loss of pet and PS results in lack of cc and burst.

if the "hyperbole" is hidden inside the part where i call out shatter limbs, you should honestly lay down your biased glasses and realize how freaking good this ability is

[Toldavf]

I find the hyperbole here quite funny indeed.

Anyway, maybe merge Revenge with Pack Synergy? It's like slotting 2 tactics for a pet class even to work. Loner can use some work too, since the loss of pet and PS results in lack of cc and burst.

if the "hyperbole" is hidden inside the part where i call out shatter limbs, you should honestly lay down your biased glasses and realize how freaking good this ability is

Tis the envy of every choppa.

[Scrilian]

if the "hyperbole" is hidden inside the part where i call out shatter limbs, you should honestly lay down your biased glasses and realize how freaking good this ability is

It's a great offensive ability, esp. vs healers, but in what way is it defensive by providing barely any mitigation unless you face 1-button smashers. That way you can call terrible embrace a "defensive ability"

[Toldavf]

On mara it does reduce my dps as it gives the slayer 5 seconds out of every 15 without an armour debuff. Luckily having multiple armour debuffs in group gets past this.

[Bretin]

It's a great offensive ability, esp. vs healers, but in what way is it defensive by providing barely any mitigation unless you face 1-button smashers. That way you can call terrible embrace a "defensive ability"

seems like we are playing a different game or you just fail to realize how that skill works. could be both though

let's end it: for you SL is an offensive ability and for me it is an defensive one. whether can you change my opinion nor am i interessted in derailing any further.

[Scrilian]

seems like we are playing a different game or you just fail to realize how that skill works. could be both though

let's end it: for you SL is an offensive ability and for me it is an defensive one. whether can you change my opinion nor am i interessted in derailing any further.

Why that much damage control, i.e. "do I even play it lol"?
I've yet to find an explanation why it is a defensive skill unless some intense form of constant 6manning might've fractured one's mind to think the other way around

[Marsares]

Thought the thread was about WL vs Mara, not SL. Make your own thread!

[roadkillrobin]

SL works both as Defensive and Offensive...
It offensive if you aply it to healers, it defensive if you aply it to melee.

[Keyser]

You did not mention: While we/wh have to use knockback or while wl can pounce to a target away from the melee train, the marauder can switch to monstro, gets his defense increased and still can keep pressuring.

Pressuring in monstro? That will probably never happen and it never happend on live. Monstrosity is a pure defensive stance and outside largescale 100% useless. Even there its damage is mediocre at best. What makes it good there are the related tactics.

Even when his dmg output gets decreased it is a huge difference if a mdd is able to stay within the assist train or not.

a marauder will srsly never just stay and spam demolition to proc monstro and keep the mysterious pressure up. whether does your AP management allow you to do so nor does it make any sense. what you do is using demolition to get the proc and then kite out. if you cant get rid of the pressure you turn around and swing again until it is up but you will never stay and spam. when being pressured a marauder has to disengage as much as any other dps class especially in RoR with those fairly low armor values.

I do not have a better solution for an extra defensive ability (besides detaunt) but I think 0% armor penetration is way too strong compared to what other mDDs provide defensively.

Slayer provides an AoE CD increase which is probably the best defensive tool in the game.
Slayer has a core armor tactic (racial) and a morale 1 against all damage types.
Slayer has an AoE Snare.

WL has pounce, the best movement tool in the game & Baited Trap which may will become stronger than the Monstro proc. Hence this is why it is related to a certain tree and not a core ability.

WH/WE do have stealth and can disappear completely.

Choppa is a mongo though and has nothing but an AoE snare.

You are right about SL. I forgot that. But still I would rate monstro higher than the others because, like I said before, it makes a difference if a dd is able to increase his defense permanently and can stay within the assist train.
About the rest I think we have to agree to disagree.

PS: Since I have not played mara in RoR yet and lack of practical experience, my opinion is definitely not set in stone but from my point of view now that is the way I see it.