Mara vs WL

[Marsares]

Your argument is not based on fact, but instead on hyperbole. I would like to see evidence of how the pet ignores CC. Pets scaling walls that they shouldn't do is a well known issue, something that should be fixed, although the same very much applies for the pets of your SH and thus the irony is not lost on me.

I do play a WL o RoR. Got her to lvl 20 already. Pet is bugged, refuse command, teleport from time to time. seem to warp all over the place, Can't be target with melee dps (range attack is fine).
You can try it if you don't believe me.

Don't need to try it. Had a RR100 WL on live and my main is a R35/RR40 WL here. I don't experience any of your problems with regards to targeting or commands, the only thing I do experience that occasionally when shifting between connected RvR lakes (e.g. Empire) the pet just completely bugs out and disappears. Other than that, the pathing is awkward to say at least, but that's a known issue with all pets.

[Synacy]

bump

edit: I came back to this thread because I wanted to apologize for bumping this. When I first created my account here, I had to "be active" on the forums so I could use the private messages feature.

[magter3001]

bump

Why bump the thread? If someone wants to add to the discussion, most likely they already would do so.

[TenTonHammer]

jesus

and here i was thinking we could atleast make it to t4 before people bring up this thread again

[samster]

wls peak at t3;
maras are <...> kings of t4.

So, just like in real life, girls peak before boys.

[magicthighs]

bump

Please don't 'bump' threads on the forum.

[Rebuke]

I think the fights of Gankbus vs Kappapride last night pretty much depict the problem with white lions (the fights themselves were really good btw, I suggest you watch them). Killing the lion pet is way to easy and you cull the WL damage by a large margin. This is something the mara does not have to cope with. Funny thing is there is no counter for the WL against 6 peeps hitting his pet.

[iraoul]

Yeah, better buff WLs

[Keyser]

Since we are just some days ( ) away from T4 I think it is ok to discuss the upcoming situation in T4.

One time on the german WAR-board waaagh.de there was a huge discussion why marauder is op. Medeas brought up some really good arguments to that. To be honest I do not know if his post is really up-to-date (especially regarding bugged abilites etc.) because I have not played marauder in RoR yet. Maybe someone can verify it. However, the main arguments should still hold.

First of all I was a little bit lazy and used google-translator but corrected some obvious mistakes. If something is still unclear, just ask.

Link to the original post from Medeas (in german): http://waaagh.de/forum/allgemeine-disku ... zgl-cb-op/

Translation:

Spoiler:

"If one wants to evaluate the balance of a class, one needs to get an idea of the following characteristics:

- How much offensive/ defensive potential does the class have?

- How much does the offense constraints the defense and vice versa?


Those are some general things that one has to define before one seeks further considerations regarding balance.



A few facts about the points above:

1. The Marauder has the highest base-damage values of all MDPS classes because he had no damage mechanics or crit-damage tactics before (Growing Instability was simply not reliable enough to count as such). That has not changed after the change of Growing Instability and so the Marauder has the same modifiers as WE / WH / WL (with limitations, since all of these classes have tactics which, while increasing the damage modifier, are in most cases of limited use such as Vindication, Masterful Treachery, Revenge, etc.). But simultaneously the marauder still has the higher base damage on his abilities.


2. The Marauder is by far the class, which makes (almost regardless of the target) the most damage compared to its maximum damage potential, i.e. while any other MDPS class can use 20-30% of its max damage-potential, the Marauder can use 50-60% on the same target. This results from the incredibly low mitigation, which one has against a Marauder since the Marauder has the best armor debuff, a toughness debuff, a tactic which allows the most important mara abilities to mitigate additionally 50% of the targets armor and an ability which benefits from the two previous mitigations and mitigates the armor again for a fixed amount.


3. The marauder is the only MDPS class which has all debuffs, which are required to kill a target with guard. Any other DPS class depends on a second class, because one either misses heal debuff or armor debuff. The Marauder does not only have both skills, but he even has the best versions of these abilities in the game: best armor debuff and best heal debuff because it is not affected by the group purge of WP, with 5s CD and 10s duration plus 50% of the healing, which is casted on the debuffed target, heals the Marauder including heal-potions and even more absurd overheal.



3.1. Bugged snare, which cannot be purged. Thus, the best snare of all MDPS classes and regarding charge and Terrible Embrace, the marauder is the best MDPS class when it comes to prevent the target from kiting.



Furthermore, the Marauder has a wounds debuff as well (after armor- and heal debuff the best debuff). Now it may not surprise you, when I say that the wounds debuff is bugged and even regardless of the bug it is the best wounds debuff in the game.



4. The Marauder wears medium armor. Besides a WL with Baited Trap in its tactic setup, no other MDPS class has more armor than the marauder. Furthermore, he has the unique ability to make him permanent immune against armor penetration. By just one click the marauder becomes the toughest MDPS in the game.



We summarize why the marauder is op:


- Higher damage potential than other MDPS classes

- lowest mitigation of its outgoing damage of all MDPS-classses

- Combines all major debuffs and has the best version of each

- High combat uptime and one of the best classes of preventing the target to get away and forcing it to stay in your assist train.

- If he needs to, the marauder can become the toughest DPS in the game simply by switching mutation



In conclusion we can say that there is no class in this game which can do more damage to a Marauder, than the Marauder himself. This is huge important for the balance in WAR. Whenever each side has the same amount of MDPS classes, the side with the marauder is capable of pressuring the other teams assist train and forcing it to back up which prevents the train from acting offensive. This again results from the fact that the marauder has all the debuffs he needs to keep the pressure high on one target.

That makes the marauder not just op, but changes the concept of WAR as well and the necessity of assisting and acting synergistic."

[Sizer]

]



1. The Marauder has the highest base-damage values of all MDPS classes because he had no damage mechanics or crit-damage tactics before (Growing Instability was simply not reliable enough to count as such). That has not changed after the change of Growing Instability and so the Marauder has the same modifiers as WE / WH / WL (with limitations, since all of these classes have tactics which, while increasing the damage modifier, are in most cases of limited use such as Vindication, Masterful Treachery, Revenge, etc.). But simultaneously the marauder still has the higher base damage on his abilities.

Its funny how when people talk about maras they usually mention monstro stance, PB, or even pull, and yet they almost never mention this. I'm not going to get into it too much til t4 comes out, but to put it simply: Growing instability needs to be either 25% crit damage, or it needs to be removed and replaced with something else (obviously something worthwhile, just not crit damage), or all of the abilities on the class need to have their base values adjusted. Otherwise the game will not be balanced. Ever.


Also since the thread is about both, wls are fine. It would be nice if the pet was harder to focus so you dont have to run loner in serious fights. And it would also be nice if a few terrible abilities were remade (whirling axe anyone?). But they are the last dps that needs buffs (after mara/slayer of course), so it can wait.