Do not reintroduce LoTD/Sov and higher armors/sc 65+weapons.

[Kragg]

I loved the PVE armor's better and had half of a bank page full with different pieces for their looks.

I can relate to that, haha! Always trying dyes and items out to make that amazingly looking character. Always went with a basic look in mind. Like my dwarf ranger Firr Flintshot. Spend ages getting a crossbow and the brewmaster packback for that ranger look


At this moment I am lobbying to allow Squigherder the option to be able to use one of the shaman outfits.

In my opinion the squigherder is the epitome of the Night Goblin but he hasn't got access to a black Night Goblin robe so I was hoping to get that itemset in basic, white item and without stats, so they can wear them in the Appearance Tab in the future.



Talking about the first set. Plain and simple but oh so cool!

[Bozzax]

this is a common misunderstood too, but tyran is not either = in term of itiem level of warlord, tyran is in between the two sets, if you look armor value from piece of equip you can pretty much see it.
Tyran was so good that they need to boost sovereign in bonus stat a bit when they relased it
Most of tank indeed used to full tyran gear itelf cos it was just like same as sovereign in a max rr80 enviroment.

Excellent post most ppl miss this

[Bozzax]

Seems this speak must be done over again

1-where too much away for t4 speak atm
2-anyone how play 1.3.6 could not tell that sov is at least the best and balance set all around


due to "itiem level" proper scale to 65 sov was as just like other uppersets, increasing in tier just by 10 level higher than warlord.
This is where doomflayer and warpforgetd failed ( they where originaly worst before get nerfed, but still that rr 90 instead should had been a damnit 75 Itiem Level, were indeed it was put to 90) .
Sovereign is a set that do no offer to any classes crazy burst, while indeed offer the best solution for every classes healer, solving 2 problem > top dps classes and healer power disparity
We can much assure that in 1.3.6 where the only patch where shammy and archemage where not ****, if dok and wp had better heals was only due to their aoe has not to be nerfed yet until when it cames 1.4.0
Same issue for bw bomb aoe bug

Sovereign emphasize more both build/playstile while doomflayer/WARPFORGE emphasize only mere number and crit.
All above renow 80 is quite balanced, due to the corect scale of itiem level (sov only add the 7th piece bonus so there is no difference such high versus warlord player).
Well tha's right a full sov wb vs a full warlord wb will kick ass but that's not the real issue, there is a difference in see that your opponents is better or better equiped than you, that get totaly owm by enemy wb that's is what occur vs full warpforge wb
Indeed sovereign do not leave any way to exploit set bonus why indeed done warpforge
About sc weapons it's all a different matter. Weapons follow a different itiem level scale where itiem level = renow level; it alwasy been in this way to prevent a situation where armor get you unkilleable,
so it occureed that:

-Sovereign armor had as "max" itiem level 65 (it was progressivly each piece where reduced by 1 for every lever below 80 you could equip it)

-Sovereign weapon/shield/etc had itiem level 75

10 in difference...... this is the number that balance the scale of every set until lv 80

This sense of balance get totaly wipe out with 1.4.0 crit exploit and itiem level always= at renow rank that those sets introduces

And all of this is not related to lotd weapons, that they are almost crap, considering that you have to farm a lot for the purpose to have a time wepon.
If there was a problem with this system was due to the bug with timers, cos any one would never loose time farm gold scarab and ank while she could actualy slaughter enemy in rvr and get better and not time weapons
Giving a close look to the wouds bar, it was too well balanced with general classes resistence, and it never occured to see so much elastic healt bar around unless someone itt was under heavy focus.
If we wanna see it from backgroud profile, sovereign bonus are even more related to what your classes should actualy do on battlefield....
The real problems started with the introduction of dual set. Breaking the taboo that: if you're a tank YOU ARE NOT **** DPS AND GET IT IN YOUR HEAD, listening to what "pro" asked on forum start ruined the game. When offensive and def set where introduces it break some part of the balance, tank where never suppose to do so much damage otherwise all the nerf that occured and the guard system would been in vain.
If you mange to actualy be dps on a tank classes you should wear a medium not a heavy, that's broke out the balance, and it occured that off tank where better than naturaly def dps mara and white lion, while only other two good melee dps remained where choppa/slayer due to their meccanic.
If tanks occured to have some kind of dps power was due the fact to support your team not to going side by side to other melee dps.
In the period between 1.3.6 and 1.4.0 all worked **** well indeed...

Spot on (most of it*) deserves a re read so bump

* Personally I think def sov sets adds to the game (appearance and variation) while still being balanced correctly

[Bozzax]

Nene has very valid points. We will not have the number of players that we were used to having around. The community will be smaller. It will make it harder to level up. And as I said, there really is no reason to be taking out armor and weapon sets.

There are 7K registered users ... in ALPHA

It needs to be talked about since the success of the game comes from being balanced properly

[RyanMakara]

* Personally I think def sov sets adds to the game (appearance and variation) while still being balanced correctly

Offensive Sovereign has the same appearance as defensive Sovereign. But, they had planned an alternate appearance for the defensive armor set. The models for Sovereign armor are known as the 06 armors in the wartool. Upon further inspection I uncovered that most classes have a _A label to this, as well. But, it is limited to the helmets and shoulderpieces, and the classes that were added in later (Choppa, Slayer, etc) don't have an alternate appearance Sovereign piece. So, practically, we could give most classes their defensive look for the shoulders and helmet.

[Glaiveheart]

I hated LotD. Had no problems with clearing the content, but did not find it as engaging as the 'base' game instances, and the gear balance was completely out of whack. They made they mistake it seems many designers make, where they have to give PvE progression a carrot and it just blows PvP all to hell.

I'd like to see all gear sets (or at least all sets in a given 'tier') purchaseable with the same currency set so people could access all gear through their preferred means of play, but I'd also like to see the differences between the tiers be more about horizontal change (options) than sheer vertical progression.

What I liked about DAoC, as a comparable, is that with the exception of the ToA bump (which pre-nerf was ridiculous), everything you did was about adding options as you were pretty much looking at the same aggregate stat set when all was said and done. What I hated about Rift is every set was a tangible gain over the previous set, and until we got crystals there was really nothing to speak of in the way of variety... and even then, they just started scaling the damn crystals up (I would have rather seen a stat baseline and then different sets added a different focus via procs and stats, and you had more mix and match options).

[Kaitanaroyr]

If it only drops in dungeons it should stay that way.

[Bozzax]

* Personally I think def sov sets adds to the game (appearance and variation) while still being balanced correctly

Offensive Sovereign has the same appearance as defensive Sovereign. But, they had planned an alternate appearance for the defensive armor set. The models for Sovereign armor are known as the 06 armors in the wartool. Upon further inspection I uncovered that most classes have a _A label to this, as well. But, it is limited to the helmets and shoulderpieces, and the classes that were added in later (Choppa, Slayer, etc) don't have an alternate appearance Sovereign piece. So, practically, we could give most classes their defensive look for the shoulders and helmet.

Unlocking that appearance would be cool and sorry for the mixup

[Bozzax]

There are many views on gear and I think most of us can agree that everyone has a personal take on it

Here are my .2$
1. More sets are more fun
2. PvE gear should have RR reqs at par with the PvP (or -5 to +5)
3. Adding as much apperance options as possible adds to the game (also for role players)
4. The game was balanced (well sort of) 1.3.6-1.3.8
5. LOTD bugged tallies simply cant be added back as they were
6. LOTD procs needs some tuning if to be reintroduced
7. 1.4.x sets could be re balanced to be at item level 75 - 80

Values such as crits from gear needs to balanced with game mechanics in mind. Otherwise mechanics won't work as intended and some classes become vastly inferior (example AM/WP or Shammy/DOK). Procs from gear also have to be balanced. You just cant add potent self heal to a aoe dps classes to name one.

Still this discussion is just a wet dream atm

[NeneEilserv]

There are 7K registered users ... in ALPHA

It needs to be talked about since the success of the game comes from being balanced properly

I understand your arguement for the older version and it's importance in terms of a more correct playing game. I would perfer this too and it was more balanced, I agree.

What I don't agree with is the 7K remark. It won't matter if it's 7K or 17K, people are not playing it enough and not around the clock of a 24hr time frame. When patch 1.4.6 came out, there was nearly a 70% drop in population. But it's wasn't just because of the changes to the RVR play, it was also to do with the lack of management and customer service. It was alot to do with the fact also that new MMO's were coming out, Rift/ect at the time and continues to be a factor. A further major factor to all games is the competition of newer and better games, regardless if most think this to be the best game for PVP. Even if a large population were to return, game completion or not, I don't see it passing the 1K mark and seriously doubt we will see the zergs of old that housed about 5-7 warbands in one push.
Your 7K, is just people signing up out of interest. Where that will be subject to change in future, there is too much competition against those few like us that continue the name of WAR.
A number is but a number and isn't everything, a fact also that translates to the battlefield of WAR.