Lets talk Trivial Blows

[noisestorm]

First off: I want this to be a nice conversation so please keep it calm.

I was talking with Aza today about the issue with too high crits from especially Sorcs/BWs that we have at the moment.
Its not solely about Sorcs/BWs but how easily Crit in general is obtainable later on and how many Crit modifiers the whole game has.
My own suggestion (which i made some long time ago already) was to just give Initiative some more meaning by implementing some sort of AntiCritDmgComponent to it (like Trivial Blows was working). This way people would have a stat to itemize for to avoid Crit damage instead of having to waste a no-brainer 45points in TB.

Azas personal preference allthough would be something like more directly targeting the Classes that deal too much damage, because Init/TB changes would basically also lower the damage of already weak classes in comparison. I personally can also see the reasoning here, but here i have some special idea. An implementation of Init/TB that solely lowers the damage from Bonus-Crit-Dmg. Every class has its base 50% Crit dmg and will still always deal that. Classes that use Tactics or Mechanics (Sorc/BW) will have their Bonus crit coming from those sources reduced on the other hand.

This would give people a chance to itemize against the ridiculous amount of Critburst that we already have (and which will just get WAY worse later on), but do not touch classes with already average dps. Also this will not be a no-brainer to go for, since you have to also invest RR for it, or slot your Armor with it. So you cannot run full armor/resis or any mainstat if you want that sweet mitigation. Also this whole thing still has counterplay since there are Init debuffs existent in the game.

From what ive gathered so far there will be balancing for heavily overloaded kits. Sooner or later doesnt matter, but it will definitely come some time. Additionally there are a few different things that could also need some adjusting so i will just list them and want to hear some feedback from you guys.

#1 The Init change from above.

#2 40% Softcap (where diminishing Return starts) for Resistances. This could easilly be increased to 50% or more.

#3 TB like it was back on live?

#4 Make armor easier to be accessible

#5 Strenghten the efficiency of Toughness

#6 Just nerfing the Classes that clearly outshine in some parts of their Kit.


/discuss

[Euan]

I don't like #1 #3 #5.

I feel defenses are already too strong. It's just a combination of them being able to deal so much damage and resistances being at 40%. Backlash isn't really an issue when you have healers. I feel like Sorcs are kept more in line because of pounce. Pounce on keep to burst a sorc down or at least put pressure on them, its extremely effective. It's a counter without really nerfing a class. It's really hard because you can easily make these classes super underwhelming.

[Coryphaus]

Well the thing is a majority of the classes that have crit modifiers such as SM/blorc and the mdps classes that have them are reliant on them dmg, so to nerf those classes would hurt their viability

[Joshwa70]

Initiative already lowers chance to be crit. No one uses now which is a shame since crit is at an all time low. The sorcs and bws just need nerfed since they have a killer mechanic and insane damage and should be hard to get to. Once they are allowed to take tb... they also will be hard to take off the board. Imo... a crit damage reduction to all players is overly op. Doks and wp that are alredy hard targets become tanks. It made the game less of a razors edge of playing a squishy class and high damage output... when you can just eliminate the inc for almost zero loss of dmg output.

When doomflayer was released they damage output of ppl were insane... and the defensive stuff was op as well. Then they nerfed the weapon dps and didn't touch the def stats. Stuff with tb became impossible without a focus. I Dont want to pkay that game again where everything is a tank. Walking the dangerous line of being easy to kill and being dangerous is where the skill can shine.... not passive abilities winni g for you.

[noisestorm]

SM has no crit modifier? And Blorc has a 25% tactic that only 2h roflstompers would take. And even then the init change would just counter some %value of his 25% bonus. So no big issue here?

[magter3001]

I don't like 1,2,5,6. I think this discussion is going to be hilarious as people who are adamant about rr80 max being perfectly balanced are going to cry a river over too many crits. Those same people also hate trivial blows... we don't even have crit rr yet people...

You want to get crit less? Put more initiative on your character.

Here's a suggestion on facing BWs and Sorcs, detaunt them or kill them or cleanse them.

[noisestorm]

@Booboo
that is exactly what i was thinking. I dont want a f*cking no brainer like TB. If you talk about WPs being unkillable you have to read my post again. Basically a WP can decide to either go for a general defense against Crits with Init or stick to his full armor slots. If he goes for init his dmg taken from Sorcs/WEs will go down, but the dmg taken from lets say Choppas and Blackguards for example will drastically go up since he doesnt have that armor anymore.

Also the Crit reduction from Init you gain later on is __absolutely__ not worth even mentioning at all! Right now 20 init gives like 1% less to be crit. Not worth in any way. Also the DR on the Crit reduction from Init is ridiculous too

[Euan]

I edited my post to add to thread. If you don't really want to mirror pounce which an effective counter, because order bias, you could possibly change SW/SH to deal more damage to squishies and give mdps increase dodge chance in their gear to balance it out.

[Coryphaus]

Here's a suggestion on facing BWs and Sorcs, detaunt them or kill them or cleanse them.

detuant for most classes is 30 ft, BW/Sorc range is 65ft on most spells?

[noisestorm]

This is no Sorc or BW discussion guys. I was just stating them as a current _obvious_ example. Once you see Slayers/WHs/WEs/Marauders getting some more crit their dmg will go apeshit as well. Always keep that in mind.