Did anybody try the following dps bg build?

[Zxul]

here

2h dps bg, no parry to speak of/no block- instead defense is coming from high toughness/-25% magical dmg tactic/-% to be crit ability.

For kiters there is a ranged snare.

As for dps, it comes from combination of 2h/aa haste tactic, as well as armor debuff. RR- maxed ws, then melee crit, possibly even skipping TB since you got Force of Fury to cover crits.

Talis probably full WS as well- to maximize your armor penetration.

[foof]

here

2h dps bg, no parry to speak of/no block- instead defense is coming from high toughness/-25% magical dmg tactic/-% to be crit ability.

For kiters there is a ranged snare.

As for dps, it comes from combination of 2h/aa haste tactic, as well as armor debuff. RR- maxed ws, then melee crit, possibly even skipping TB since you got Force of Fury to cover crits.

Talis probably full WS as well- to maximize your armor penetration.

I tried it on live. It isn't very good, as you are trying to spread yourself too thin. You aren't really a DPS nor are you a tank at this point. A 2H BG already has plenty of issues, but not even going for the "full" dps mode means your damage will honestly be pretty pathetic. As you aren't using a shield, or bumping up your parry, your ability to tank is also pretty bad, and you lose some of your best utility (knockdown).

1. The second most important DPS tactic for a BG is the anti-detaunt. As your build cannot get it, thats a huge problem.

2. You also can't get the heal debuff tactic, which is less important but will still impact your ability to be useful, esp when trying to take down healers.

I tried this build on live specifically to play around with the AoE snare, which I thought would help my overall issues being kited, which it did, but you lose so so so much to get it that it isn't worth it. You won't be a DPS, or a tank. At that point you'd be better off playing a defensive Marauder, a Chosen, or a BO.

If you want to be a 2h DPS BG, this is your core build that deviating from will pretty much instantly make your much worse. The rest of the points and the final tactic are debatable and situational.
waronlinebuilder.org - Black Guard build

After a lot of trial and error I was partial to this build for the DPS BG: waronlinebuilder.org - Black Guard build

A solid case can be made for Enraged Beating over Choking Fury. Especially as you increase your crit chance with renown and better gear.

[foof]

here

2h dps bg, no parry to speak of/no block- instead defense is coming from high toughness/-25% magical dmg tactic/-% to be crit ability.

For kiters there is a ranged snare.

As for dps, it comes from combination of 2h/aa haste tactic, as well as armor debuff. RR- maxed ws, then melee crit, possibly even skipping TB since you got Force of Fury to cover crits.

Talis probably full WS as well- to maximize your armor penetration.

I tried it on live. It isn't very good, as you are trying to spread yourself too thin. You aren't really a DPS nor are you a tank at this point. A 2H BG already has plenty of issues, but not even going for the "full" dps mode means your damage will honestly be pretty pathetic. As you aren't using a shield, or bumping up your parry, your ability to tank is also pretty bad, and you lose some of your best utility (knockdown).

1. The second most important DPS tactic for a BG is the anti-detaunt. As your build cannot get it, thats a huge problem.

2. You also can't get the heal debuff tactic, which is less important but will still impact your ability to be useful, esp when trying to take down healers.

I tried this build on live specifically to play around with the AoE snare, which I thought would help my overall issues being kited, which it did, but you lose so so so much to get it that it isn't worth it. You won't be a DPS, or a tank. At that point you'd be better off playing a defensive Marauder, a Chosen, or a BO.

If you want to be a 2h DPS BG, this is your core build that deviating from will pretty much instantly make your much worse. The rest of the points and the final tactic are debatable and situational.
waronlinebuilder.org - Black Guard build

There honestly isn't a viable 2h tanky dps BG build. If you want to be tanky and dps, you use a shield. If you are willing to sacrifice the best single target knockdown in the game, you may as well be going full dps.

The only real thing that makes a dps based BG viable in any sort of sense is the immunity to detaunt tactic. Without it, have fun losing 50% of your potential damage on most targets who aren't dumb (or if you want to kill tanks and only tanks).

Edit: This post was supposed to be an edit. Sorry for the double.

[Coryphaus]

blade of ruin should be changed into a cave in mirror ability and then 2h bg would be more viable

[foof]

blade of ruin should be changed into a cave in mirror ability and then 2h bg would be more viable

Yep, or even, changed into ANYTHING, else. Blade of Ruin has been a horrible ability forever. It's a freaking medium damage single target dot that requires a defensive pre-req conditional to proc, costs hatred, and requires you to spec it.

It wouldn't even make a good core ability. As a 5 point spec ability, its a joke.

[Jaycub]

The problem with 2h in this game is that you hardly gain very much DPS for abilities, it's only really noticeable for auto attacks. Block is the strongest mitigation mechanic in the game, you lose assloads of EHP for a minor increase in damage. 2h for tanks should honestly be reworked.

And then it's compounded on classes like BG that lose really good abilities by dropping a shield for 2h.

[foof]

The problem with 2h in this game is that you hardly gain very much DPS for abilities, it's only really noticeable for auto attacks. Block is the strongest mitigation mechanic in the game, you lose assloads of EHP for a minor increase in damage. 2h for tanks should honestly be reworked.

And then it's compounded on classes like BG that lose really good abilities by dropping a shield for 2h.

I think this is a pretty accurate statement. That being said, 2h does get more attractive when the class in question gets an auto attack increasing ability/tactic (as the BG does).

The biggest things that honestly reduce the viability of a 2h BG (not even talking in like end game 6v6 here, where no matter what it would likely never be viable), is the inability to access a KD, crimson death being pretty lackluster for a 13 point 2h only ability, and blade of ruin being a garbage ability.

Making BoR a Cave-In mirror would solve 90% of a 2h BGs problems. Doing that and slightly buffing Crimson Death would fix nearly all of them.

[Coryphaus]

yes i feel that 2hs need a very real bonus for using them, dw gets 10% parry but 10% strike though is garbage and unnoticable

how ever i hesitate cause choppa and slayers who use 2h could get over buffed potentially

The biggest things that honestly reduce the viability of a 2h BG (not even talking in like end game 6v6 here, where no matter what it would likely never be viable), is the inability to access a KD, crimson death being pretty lackluster for a 13 point 2h only ability, and blade of ruin being a garbage ability.

Making BoR a Cave-In mirror would solve 90% of a 2h BGs problems. Doing that and slightly buffing Crimson Death would fix nearly all of them.

yes i agree with this

[Jaycub]

Just buff the generic 2h tank tactic

Right now its like 10% damage and 5% parry?

It's kind of a lazy fix, making something absolutely mandatory... but it would work.

Something like 15% damage 5% parry and ~15% armor ignore. Also I think the strike through on 2h is only for block... change it to block and parry, this will also give a nice little buff to 2h choppa/slayer. It also doesn't buff the slayer cancer spec since it requires DW.

[foof]

The BG always struck me as a perfect example of the inability of 2008 Mythic to properly balance this game. At release, with no Dark Protector mechanic, they were essentially so far behind IBs in potential mechanic generation that is was a joke at best. The fact that nobody thought this was a pertinent issue (at least nobody who mattered enough to make it happen), goes to show the complete ineptitude of the design team.