Is oRvR too Objective Oriented? (Increase Renown For Kills)

[Azuzu]

At the moment Open RVR is too focused on taking keeps and BOs and has no focus on fighting other players.


In the current state of the game the bigger zerg gets 4400 renown for taking 4 BOs and 1 keep. While killing 100 players in a 6 man group, averaging about 30 renown a kill, gives about 3000. Finding and killing 100 players takes longer and requires the players to have more skill.....or at the very minimum be at their keyboards and not watching TV occasionally moving.

Fighting players and not afking at keep doors should be rewarded, not punished. Sadly, right now the most effective way to get renown is to roll through a zone as quickly as possible with no resistance.



In my opinion, we should raise (double) the amount of renown giving for kills. I believe, AAO + a flat raising of renown per kill will encourage fighting. Taking keeps will still be the most efficient way to get renown, but at least those who choose to fight players will be able to keep up.

[skutrug]

I agree with that - if one wants to promote RvR fighting - increase reward for fighting.
Right now it is much more time-effective to flip empty keeps than defending them.
Drop the reward for flipping zones, up the rewards and drops for fighting players... unless the goal is to promote the taking of empty keeps.
Players do respond to proper incentives from the game... right now we are getting incentives for flipping empty keeps, so we do it in the most efficient way.
Frielda

[Genisaurus]

I doubt that people are going to notice the difference, really.

If I, the average player, currently get 50 renown for a kill now, and 2000 for a keep, the keep looks like it's more profitable. If I kill 40 people on my way to the keep, I'm not going to notice that I've gotten 2000 renown already from RvR, because all I see is, "+50 renown" messages. I'm not tracking each kill and doing the math as I run along.

If I get 100 renown from a kill, what does that change in my perception? It will be a 100% better reward in reality, but I'm not going to notice it any more than I notice 50 renown. The keep still looks like a better deal. Especially if I'm on a <26 character, or the pop is low because I'm playing at NA prime time, or none of my friends are on so I have to run with an unreliable, borderline stupid pug WB.

I don't think there's any one easy fix for RvR; I think we should get AAO, open up more zones (both of which Aza has already said yes to), and just tough it out until we have the time/ability/consensus for a significant overhaul.

[Azuzu]

I doubt that people are going to notice the difference, really.

If I currently get 50 renown for a kill now, and 2000 for a keep, the keep looks like it's more profitable. If I kill 40 people on my way to the keep, I'm not going to notice that I've gotten 2000 renown already from RvR, because all I see is, "+50 renown" messages. I'm not tracking each kill and doing the math as I run along.

If I get 100 renown from a kill, what does that change in my perception? It will be a better reward in reality, but I'm not going to notice it any more than I notice 50. The keep still looks like a better deal. Especially if I'm on a <26 character, or the pop is low because I'm playing at NA prime time, or none of my friends are on so I have to run with an unreliable, borderline stupid pug WB.

I don't think there's any one easy fix for RvR; I think we should get AAO, open up more zones (both of which Aza has already said yes to), and just tough it out until we have the time/ability/consensus for a significant overhaul.

I think we should at least give people the option. I'm not suggesting we eliminate rewards for taking keeps.

I just think we should bring killing players on par with a keep take. When I roam with a 6 man, we average about 30 renown per-kill. We have to kill 100 people to get 3000 renown, which takes longer, requires us to be actively playing and is still 1400 renown LESS than what the afk'ers get for taking 4 BOs + Keep Flip.

Also, I think your selling peoples intelligence short. A lot of people are able to do basic addition and would figure out if they get 200 renown for a kill I only need to kill 10 players to equal the same amount of renown as a keep take, hey maybe I'll try killing people.

Those who want to PvDoor will still have the path to easy renown, but those who choose to kill players will be able to keep up with them. Right now there are 2 choices for renown grindings, SCs or Keep Doors. I'd like to see a third one, Open RvR Kills.

[Azarael]

You need to nerf down the rewards for taking BOs and keeps, and increase them when fighting is going on in the zone.

[Azuzu]

You need to nerf down the rewards for taking BOs and keeps, and increase them when fighting is going on in the zone.

The problem with that is the focus is still only taking BOs/Keeps. It doesn't give an incentive to those fighting the people who will eventually take the BOs/Keeps with larger numbers.


Even if you nerf the rewards for undefended Keeps / BOs people would still rather get nerfed rewards. What's better renown, taking an undefended zone in 20 minutes or a 4 hour fight to take a defended zone for a little more rewards?


Killing other players needs to mean something, we need a third option for efficient renown gains. Right now it's either A: taking keeps or B: SCs with a premade.

I'm hoping that if the kills (fun pvp) in open RvR is rewarding enough it will draw the premades out of the SCs and into the fields.

[Jaycub]

I think he means PUGs are the main driving force behind what happens in ORvR, and changing rewards to kills will not influence them, and if it did it would be a negative influence. Buffing kill rewards is lets face it a buff to hardcore players/guild groups. AAO should take care of that, I would think anyways.

Rewards should be setup to create a good flow, meaning incentivising taking objectives and defending them rather than farming kills. So the campaign is encouraged to move forward.

If you make just getting kills too lucrative you walk a fine line, and risk it becoming a system that gets abused to disrupt ORvR's main purpose/goal.

A perfect system would be one where both PUGs and guild/splintered groups are encouraged to work together, rather than what we have now which is PUGs dictate and take objectives zones, while premades run around trying to get as many kills etc... as possible to get RR. There are exceptions to this ofcourse but for the most part I think this holds true atm.

[Azuzu]

I think he means PUGs are the main driving force behind what happens in ORvR, and changing rewards to kills will not influence them, and if it did it would be a negative influence. Buffing kill rewards is lets face it a buff to hardcore players/guild groups. AAO should take care of that, I would think anyways.

Rewards should be setup to create a good flow, meaning incentivising taking objectives and defending them rather than farming kills. So the campaign is encouraged to move forward.

If you make just getting kills too lucrative you walk a fine line, and risk it becoming a system that gets abused to disrupt ORvR's main purpose/goal.

A perfect system would be one where both PUGs and guild/splintered groups are encouraged to work together, rather than what we have now which is PUGs dictate and take objectives zones, while premades run around trying to get as many kills etc... as possible to get RR. There are exceptions to this ofcourse but for the most part I think this holds true atm.

I don't think it's just a buff to the hardcore players. I know plenty of people who like to solo, run in small groups, ect, ect. This is a small niche server that has attracted lots of players who pine for the days of roaming around Warhammer getting into fun fights.

People are taking keeps undefended keeps because it's the best renown and really only efficient non-SC renown at the moment. Increasing renown per-kill wouldn't change that. All it would do is reward the small groups, solo'ers, anyone not banging on keep doors for taking part in RvR and killing players.

It also makes defending a keep more lucrative, you may not fight them off, but if you get a lot of renown for kills people will feel it wasn't a waste of time. Please tho, don't make renown gains only around the keep, a lot more goes into defending a keep then just at the keep itself.

[Jaycub]

IDK i'm all for kills being worth more, it would definitely boost my playstyle. Just trying to think of what devs might be thinking when creating a system.

I think no matter what happens someone (or a particular playstyle) is going to get sort of thrown under the bus, and each change to RvR is going to bring out a new group of people dissatisfied with it. ORvR changes are probably the hardest thing the devs will have to change/fix in this game.

[Azuzu]

IDK i'm all for kills being worth more, it would definitely boost my playstyle. Just trying to think of what devs might be thinking when creating a system.

I think no matter what happens someone (or a particular playstyle) is going to get sort of thrown under the bus, and each change to RvR is going to bring out a new group of people dissatisfied with it. ORvR changes are probably the hardest thing the devs will have to change/fix in this game.

How do you feel increasing renown per-kill would throw other playstyles under the bus?

Wouldn't those who want to take keeps still be able to do so and those who want to run SCs also still be able to? I'm not suggesting lowing renown for keep/bo takes or SCs. I'm simply saying bring renown pre-kill on par with those two and you will see more people defending and more actual fighting.