Heal/Crit calculations.

[Scottx125]

So I'm just looking for some confirmation on my figuring. There's been a lot of discussion on if Crit heal is everything or if pumping willpower is more efficient in my guilds discord. My calc is that 5 willpower = 1 bonus heal, and that scales in a linear fashion up to the softcap. Crit, is worth ~ 9 willpower. That being calculated from the average heal crit of 1.4 (1.3 + random range of 20% ontop). So if you had gear that has 0 willpower and 1% crit or another piece that has 12 willpower, technically speaking the 12 willpower would outheal the 1% crit.

With that being said, I did some basic calc to determine if stacking crit actually heals more or not:

(only done via the renown to make sure the added crit/loss of willpower was relatively fair)
1.4 avg crit
Touch of the Divine heal:
688 -> 963.2 (crit avg dmg) 25% crit 732 wp
649 -> 908.6 (crit avg dmg) 32% crit 660 wp

Over 100 heals
51600 base + 24080 = 75680 25% crit build.
44132 base + 29075.2 = 73207.2 32% crit build <- recieves extra 5 renown just to get extra crit.

My opinion is that crit's in general are only worth while if you are either 1. Soft capped on your main stat or 2. Gain something from proccing a crit such as a shield bonus, high crit dmg bonus etc. A lot of people also say that crits provide amazing burst, but my opinion is that crit % is not burst due to the fact it's completely down to probability. Burst imo is linked to your rotation. And whilst it might be true that if the stars align and even with a 40% chance to crit or something you are able to nuke a target down due to successive crits. The opposite could also be said, that being you could run 40% crit and only see 1 crit through every burst window throughout an entire night.

I'd like to get some feedback on my conclusions and calculations to determine if they are right or wrong (esp from a dev). Thanks.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

So I'm just looking for some confirmation on my figuring. There's been a lot of discussion on if Crit heal is everything or if pumping willpower is more efficient in my guilds discord. My calc is that 5 willpower = 1 bonus heal, and that scales in a linear fashion up to the softcap. Crit, is worth ~ 9 willpower. That being calculated from the average heal crit of 1.4 (1.3 + random range of 20% ontop). So if you had gear that has 0 willpower and 1% crit or another piece that has 12 willpower, technically speaking the 12 willpower would outheal the 1% crit.

With that being said, I did some basic calc to determine if stacking crit actually heals more or not:

(only done via the renown to make sure the added crit/loss of willpower was relatively fair)
1.4 avg crit
Touch of the Divine heal:
688 -> 963.2 (crit avgdmg) 25% crit 732 wp
649 -> 908.6 (crit avg) 32% crit 660 wp

Over 100 heals
51600 base + 24080 = 75680 25% crit build.
44132 base + 29075.2 = 73207.2 32% crit build <- recieves extra 5 renown just to get extra crit.

My opinion is that crit's in general are only worth while if you are either 1. Soft capped on your main stat or 2. Gain something from proccing a crit such as a shield bonus, high crit dmg bonus etc. A lot of people also say that crits provide amazing burst, but my opinion is that crit % is not burst due to the fact it's completely down to probability. Burst imo is linked to your rotation. And whilst it might be true that if the stars align and even with a 40% chance to crit or something you are able to nuke a target down due to successive crits. The opposite could also be said, that being you could run 40% crit and only see 1 crit through every burst window throughout an entire night.

I'd like to get some feedback on my conclusions and calculations to determine if they are right or wrong (esp from a dev). Thanks.

its a bit more complex, what it push heal crits is the group healing; chance to crit group heal is higer than crit st 1 ppl only, when you reach 27% +10% hide base crit chance and spam group heals at that point simply increase willpower is just better but thats because you just crit heals that often than it's rather pointless stack more crits.
This is total different on st heals which really tend to be ugly rng dosent really matter how nuch you stack. The group heal results was the same in live; st stuff was a little more coherent in live than on ror tought. There is also other variable... dok/wp spam more = more crits on average, meanwhile other healers group heals are less frequent and there fore do less crits (altought my am seems crit more than my dok with equal % so maybe there are hidden modifiers for longer cast time heals). For least there are also other variable such proc on crits ( bubble ok dok/wp etc) which can push for stack crits.

N.B: i'd rather be also interested in understand why hardly concession and murderous intent heal reduction stack when in live they didnt stop nerf all my dok builds

[Scottx125]

True, but I'd say your chance to group crit heal is higher because you're healing more targets. The chance you crit at least one of them is far more likely then just healing one person. That being said it's still the same calculation, just separated out to 6 people or however many you heal. Unless as you say there's some hidden underlying calculation that makes it so crit healing in groups is higher. But I'd need to see some sort of proof of that, as I've never encountered it.

[Tesq]

it's as you say one of the two, it does either just try to (try crit * "x" number of target ) or either just try once but with higer change of the crit based on how many are inside the party, the result is still crit group heals is easier than st so you push to reach sweet spot to constantly pump out heal crits..
You can just prove it by look at the fact that all ppl in group will crit or not at the same time, then whatever the one method dosent really change much for the intended purpose.

what i mean for hidden modifier tough was meant for longer cast time group heals such am/sh/zel/rp compared to my dok.

[Scottx125]

Well It wouldn't make a difference imo. Because if it's just 1 heal that applies to all 6 whatever the result is, that being a crit or non crit. It's still the same amount of healing. Like wise if it's 1 heal but it checks each target for a crit or not, it's still the same crit heal % chance (I would argue it'd be a more accurate avg due to the greater number of checks). And to be fair, even if there's some code that say's "if in group +10% crit heal". That doesn't really change the calculation. Because both the lower crit and higher crit gain 10% crit heal chance.

My point is that, in the long term. Non-crit heals more in this specific example. And the idea of "you crit more therefore giving us more healing when needed" mentality, is flawed. Because you can't control when you crit unless you can get your crit heal to 60-70%+ (highest I've gotten is 39%). And even then, you can't guarantee you will crit heal when you actually need it.

[Tesq]

And the idea of "you crit more therefore giving us more healing when needed" mentality, is flawed. Because you can't control when you crit unless you can get your crit heal to 60-70%+ (highest I've gotten is 39%). And even then, you can't guarantee you will crit heal when you actually need it.

you can with group heal, since is most guaranteed to crit than the st ones after 37%, which mean is easier gain that 50% increase on group heals spam, which at some point make spam group heals better than st ( in live dok/wp group heals were nerfed for this). Just try 100 st heals Vs 100 group heals (with 6 men party ) you will see it does crit more therefore yes you know group play/heal will just make you crit more by default.

to make an example if you have 37% of chance and it does try to crit 6 times how much is the average chance to crit? it does make a nice crit inflation, it likely reach an average of 60% (not a mathematician you do the math you are better than me for sure) i just want to make an example based on my exp.

you can just test this on a zealot/rp with flash heals vs its own group heals.

[Zxul]

Don't forget that willpower only gives you healing and a small extra disrupt chance, while heal crit has things going off it (Resto Burst, dok self absorb, zealot +25% heal tactic, etc).

[Tesq]

NB: keep in mind that this method of group heal crit is due crit increase value only being 50% meanwhile there is a wide variety of offensive crit multipler

[Scottx125]

Spoiler:

And the idea of "you crit more therefore giving us more healing when needed" mentality, is flawed. Because you can't control when you crit unless you can get your crit heal to 60-70%+ (highest I've gotten is 39%). And even then, you can't guarantee you will crit heal when you actually need it.

you can with group heal, since is most guaranteed to crit than the st ones after 37%, which mean is easier gain that 50% increase on group heals spam, which at some point make spam group heals better than st ( in live dok/wp group heals were nerfed for this). Just try 100 st heals Vs 100 group heals (with 6 men party ) you will see it does crit more therefore yes you know group play/heal will just make you crit more by default.

to make an example if you have 37% of chance and it does try to crit 6 times how much is the average chance to crit? it does make a nice crit inflation, it likely reach an average of 60% (not a mathematician you do the math you are better than me for sure) i just want to make an example based on my exp.

you can just test this on a zealot/rp with flash heals vs its own group heals.

It's still the same crit chance, what it does mean though is that if for example I heal 6 group members. That 37% is calculated 6 times in 1 tick. If we inflate the calculation (might be wrong here). But if it's normally out of 100%. But because there's 6 targets/casts going on. It's now multiplied by 6. So that 37/100 chance is now 222/600. Meaning on average you'll critically heal at least 2 people in your group during each heal. If that gives you a proc that boosts your healing or something then yeah that would scale amazingly in groups. But WP afaik doesn't get anything like that. Making stacking crit not worthwhile because it doesn't proc anything .

Spoiler:

Don't forget that willpower only gives you healing and a small extra disrupt chance, while heal crit has things going off it (Resto Burst, dok self absorb, zealot +25% heal tactic, etc).

My opinion is that crit's in general are only worth while if you are either 1. Soft capped on your main stat or Gain something from proccing a crit such as a shield bonus, high crit dmg bonus etc.

Already covered that .

[Tesq]

wht im trying to say is the more ppl you try to heal the more crit chance you actually have, therefor if you campare "x" willp vs x crit on st heals you get a ratio, if you do it on group heal you gona get total different results because you will crit more often on average hence heal output will be more, if you roll a dice and you need to do 1 over 6 face and you re roll the results 6 times the ratio it wont remain 1 out of 6. This is what is happening on group heals, it gona test ina way or another the results 6 times till it has tried to crit 6 times which mean more crits = more average increase of 50% = more heal out put.