SW 180 Init debuff

[Rozackroo]

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Hey there... Just want to talk about the Meele spec of the Shadow Warrior. I couldn't find a Topic about the problem i have with it, so don't blame me if there is already a discussion about it.

First, i am a big fan of all kind of unusual playstyle... i like to play dps RP or meele SH and stuff... and i have a RR 63 SW.
the problem i see at the moment isnt the armor buff on scout stance, which could bring you to about 5k armor if you slot your equip with mastersmith talisman neither is it the healdebuff on a meele without cooldown. My problem is the stacking initiative debuff.

It is totaly fine that a debuff stacks with a tactic, and how many classes on Order have an Initiative debuff? DPS WP, SW on RKD and SM with its statsteal that doesnt make the Tactic (Wrist Slash) that OP. That would totaly fit for me, but with 5 pieces of conqueror the SW himself can debuff 180 Initiative on every target instant without cooldown. If you dont remember Conqueror set bonus, (25% chance on hit to reduce targets initiative by 100)

Let's me bring the problem closer... a usuall dps has about 200 Initiative with full conq, i tested with full equiped mara (220 Initiative) when you reduce that about 100 the chance to be critically rise fromabout 10% to 60%+ and with another 80 Initiative debuff the chance to be critically hit is shown as "$#/!£" and you will ALWAYS get critical hits. Even if you skill 45 RR points to have 24% reduced chance to be critically hit, when a SW debuffs you, EVERYONE even tank with <5% crit will always crit you.

So maybe you tell me now that is okay, but if not, i dont just want to blame SW now(maybe becasue i play Order), i would at least make a suggestion...

dont nerf the tactic just dont let the conqueror debuff stack with it(all other debuffs can still stack because not every class has one and they have cooldown and can be defended against). ,meele SW is strong enough and he is still able to reduce Initiative twice, but not on every target always instant.

Hey can we atleast discuss the matter. Your comment to it Torq doesn't make any sense. You guys brought the gear into the game and you buffed meele sw so strongly that it is now in the spot it's currently is, compleatly OP. Debuffing someone to be 100% critable isn't even remotly balanced. Then oh invest for Init... Lol with 7 Major Init talis my dps DoK sits at 270 Init which is still an unbearable value if debuffed by 180. You say balance by itemisation isn't happening well you guys also said a class shouldn't be OP only tied to a specific set.

When I lock a thread its locked, you dont go and re open it unless you want your tenure on the forums to be very short, you got a balance proposal to make you make it where you should, you dont do this especially on a shill account. - Torque

[rmpl]

I think the debuff is absolutely bananas at the moment when it comes to 6v6 or small scale. If you come up against it unprepared- if you do not have a black orc (for ini warbellow) with you and at least 250 base initiative then you will have a very bad time getting wiped over and over.

I'm not sure if it deserves a nerf though since everything but rvr is a minigame and I haven't had enough opportunities to counter it since, well, smallscale is mostly dead. It's a fairly new build and I'm glad that melee SW has finally found its niche but it would be cool if SH could do something like that as well but then, again, mirroring is bad, right?

TLDR:
Too strong? Very possibly but it's too early to say.

[Tesq]

Mah if it was a sw only bypass it would be fair imo just benefithing all ppl (not just group member) is a bit op. A sw could spec for it and stay range when you try to catch him he swap and you get further punished for try catch one of the best kiter in game.

[Panzerkasper]

Don't nerf it, I will miss the maniacle laughter of Starilas when he bombs people to space with his melee-SW.

[witchdoctor]

Don't get me wrong, with this thread i didn't want to cry about any balance. But they nerfed all order party crit tactic's, and then give the SW the chance to debuff enemies whole initiative... Doesn't make any sense to me^^

[Smellybelly]

It doesnt feel like a calculated balance act, rather a mistake in planning. An unintended super buff.

Give the devs some credit tbh, they cant predict every little combination in a game as massive as ror. Some sort of change is required, according to us in the community who faces it or use it. It is simply put, too strong.

[peterthepan3]

there's a plethora of other tactic based debuffs that don't stack with normal debuffs, so it's a bit confusing when/why WS does.

[Bozzax]

bad calls by devs even tho client says it is as intended

Ini isn’t like other stats that all scale linniearly and can be stacked easily to 600 or more on all classes.

Solutions
1. Enforce a new hard cap base % to be crit
2. Remove all ini buff debuff stacking regardless of type
3. Redo the crit formula to a linniear function

Anything that can nullify 45 renown points with 100% uptime is retardedly broken

[Tesq]

bad calls by devs even tho client says it is as intended

Ini isn’t like other stats that all scale linniearly and can be stacked easily to 600 or more on all classes.

Solutions
1. Enforce a new hard cap base % to be crit
2. Remove all ini buff debuff stacking regardless of type
3. Redo the crit formula to a linniear function

Anything that can nullify 45 renown points with 100% uptime is retardedly broken

Not necessary, if it work only for sw and you internaly class balance it, tough i agree with peter post, it would please more ppl if the rules were so that every one know if something stack or not and the degree of the quality of that thing

i.e. every tactic stack( unless said "the skill also do that " instead than " when you use x you will also do that")

[AxelF]

Easiest solution seems to be to change SW Conq proc to +5%* crit chance. That would give a similar effect but benefits only the SW as described above.

* or whatever value is deemed appropriate.