Spawn camping

[bwdaWAR]

While I was thinking over my idea to give an extra role to Witch Elfs/Witch Hunters in RvR, I realised there was a serious potential for an exploit in there, specifically spawn camping: a party/warband could move into the ground floor of the enemy keep when it's not under siege and kill anyone spawning there. The usual problems that come from spawncamping apply here too: no time to buff, no time to react, no time to regroup; not to mention anyone who spawns there is effectively trapped there in an endless respawn-be killed right away cycle. And unless a very large group respawns at the same time in the keep, they won't be able to overwhelm the campers since they have a powerful advantage. And an organised group going there specifically to clear them is far less likely than during a siege, so that could go on undisturbed for quite a while.
Then I realised this is already possible. On the ground floor there are maybe about 4-5 regular mobs in aggro range of the center, where people spawn? 3, or even 2 well geared/self-heal build Witch Elfs/Witch Hunters can easily handle that, or should some other melee DPS with better survival and their own Pick Lock support them, such as a Marauder... I've encountered Witch Elfs/Witch Hunters inside keeps that weren't under siege, even teams of them, but only on the third floor or the second floor, outside the Lord room, never on the first floor where players spawn. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened yet though...
So my point is this: is this thing supposed to be possible at all? Is it allowed? Is it perhaps even encouraged? It's not easy to pull it off after all (but not very difficult either; and while it includes a high chance of being killed and forced to respawn, let's be honest: even regular RvR lake ganking does).

[dansari]

You *could* try to gank the inner spawn.. and, speaking as someone who does like your idea, I don't think it would be OP. You would have to have a substantial amount of WEs to transport a substantial number of players inside the inner, and you have to get through two postern doors. Even if you had 3 WEs who were able to transport two healers and a tank inside with them, you'd have to wait another 4 minutes to get to the inner spawn, where you have all those mobs also damaging you.. idk just doesn't sound like they would have much success.

[Coma]

You *could* try to gank the inner spawn.. and, speaking as someone who does like your idea, I don't think it would be OP. You would have to have a substantial amount of WEs to transport a substantial number of players inside the inner, and you have to get through two postern doors. Even if you had 3 WEs who were able to transport two healers and a tank inside with them, you'd have to wait another 4 minutes to get to the inner spawn, where you have all those mobs also damaging you.. idk just doesn't sound like they would have much success.

keep mob are now normal mob.... you barely need one dps and one healer to breeze trough them... (actualy one mara can breeze to them on his own...)

with this said... bring a magus/eng and a shaman/am and you will have gt snare to keep the newly respawned enemy in place and and plenty of AoE/AoE DoT plus potential magnet/rift or naplm/mist, add a mara for the AoE KD... and likely the enemy will not even be able to take 5 step... you can alternativly bring a Sorc/bw for the AoE silance to disable any respawning healer... but personally for destro I thin that AoE kd is more effective... anther alternative is the Eng/magus mine/nurglin AoE stagger

seriously... you get one party inside the inner door and the keep respawn is as good as gone.... only if a WB get wiped and they respawn all at the same time you could have some real problems (but is you actualy are prepared for that there is a good chance you can wipe them once or twice before they are able to actualy organize themself)... until a WB of continualy respawning player is gathere a party is more than enough to kill and kill and kill... and since there is no option that let you chose to respawn at the camp rathere than the keep... it will become a sloutherfeast...

and this is not even the worst part... if you can bring tank and healer inside the inner keep... who will prevent you from actualy starting hitting the lord? if that can be done than let alone a roaming party... 10 minutes and you can get a full wb inside the keep...


PS: actualy you don't even need to gate tank and other dps inside... all you need is a single healer inside the outer door... than have the others let themself get killed by guards and the healer will ress them on top of the walls... repeat the same thing on inner door and you'r done... to do this you only need 1 we and wait for the lockpick CD or 2 we to do it fast... and woila... one wb sneaked inside the inner keep without hitting the outer doors... this is nothing really new and no new skill is actualy required... we just need something that is already in the game to be implemented ^^...that is banners and that banner ability "ress" .. on official we didi it plenty of time... one MDPS get inside... one healer get himself kiled and banner ressed on the wall... and it's done ^^'

[dansari]

All of this is great on paper if you're fighting against unorganized pugs. You would never be able to get away with it (for an extended period of time) against any good premade opponent.

[Coma]

All of this is great on paper if you're fighting against unorganized pugs. You would never be able to get away with it (for an extended period of time) against any good premade opponent.

and who is that is preventing a premade to do it ^^ as I said all you need is one WE to gate one healer inside... after that you can get a full guild WB inside the enemy keep... without compromising the WB setup (just SINGLE WE is all you need... you can even have it being outside of the WB and ust act as a transporter ^^')... now you don't have a pug group there inside but an organized guild WB... but why limit yourself to just one wb? after all healer don't have a limit to only be able to ress payer from their party/wb... one healer can res another... and the 2 can ress 2 more... one minute and you have one wb skipping the outer doors... one more minute and you have them inside the inner door...

now... there are keep where the guards position and the wall are easy to spot... and it will be harder to actualy gate a full wb without being noticed...(harder don't mean impossible... if you actualy pay attention to the opposite realm movement you can do that when they attacking a far awat BO) but there are also keep where you can do that with pretically zero chance of being spotted while goin trough the outer doors...
The inner doors are a bit more risky since people can respawn inside at any moment and catch you while you'r still in the middle of your work... but even then, the time required to pull in a full WB is sure enough less than the time required for the keep owner faction to realize what is appening and get in there... at that point you will have one or more ORGANIZED WB(s) inside the keep... faming all those that respawn inside... all those freshly PACKED enemy that you already know where they will spawn... just place as many GT as you can in that position... there probably will be people that die as soon as they spawn (PoS/RoF and Mist/Napalm are one per area... but ruinous cascade/annihilate and instant AoE you can stack as many as you want... and as I said with GT snare/mines/AoE KD and other AoE CC there is plenty of way for the LURKING side to control the respaning side without ghetting them the chance to react... especialy now thet CW and RD are there no more...


PS: As i said sneaking inside the enemy keep without breaking the doors is something that was done a lot on official, not just somethig I'm talking about based on paper calculations ^^'... it is also the reason why at a certain point reduced the range for banner ress... but it was still enough to ress trough outer doors (not on all keep but most of them actualy have a point where the wall are lower ^^)... for inner doors it was simply a matter of tanky dps tanking the lord (that was nowhere as tanky as the one here in RoR) while healer used AoE heal from outside... and this is also the reason why they set lord to reset if they got too far from the lord room... because generally MDPS that sneaked inside tanked them on the balcony to stay within range of AoE heal from outside ^^'... in teh end they added BREAKING THE DOORS as a requirement for keep take and finally put an end to the NINJA KEEP TAKE (that is how it was called on Azgal... there was a period where almost 80% of keep take there was done this way... a ram hitting the outer door become a mirage ^^')

it should also be noted that teh respawn location inside the keep wan not on the groun floor but on the third floor... this made it harder for the MDPS to get there (they had to pass trough the lord room) and they would also end up being outside of AoE heal range...

[bwdaWAR]

While I do appreciate pointing out more varieties of the same problem with my plan, I was actually more interested in the second part, that is, spawn camping with the current system and melee DPS only...

[venrik]

Just seems like cheese tactics to me. What do you get out of it other than very easy renown as people spawn and get wiped? I get what the OP is trying to say, with a role for WH /WE, but they both can have rolls in 6 man and wb. I dont get why people cannot see this. Not pug wb or group, but organised group/wb. Anyway, seems lame to me to gank people as they spawn. But each to their own

[Fallenkezef]

It would give the damned keep afker's a shock

[Nidwin]

It would give the damned keep afker's a shock

I don't know how it's for you but I don't play RoR on the toilet seat in my bathroom and I do need coffee on a regular base while playing.
I do use a RIP and a fast AFK inside keep or WC for my natural needs.

On the subject of the thread,
I've run into WH's inside keeps, including inner and they were dealt with so till Today nothing to complain about on my side. It's not my way of having fun on my WE but if others do find it enjoying, why not, as long as there's no abuse I'm fine with it.

The good thing with RoR is that banner rez abuse will be dealt with by the staff in no time. They play the game too and we have GM's online watching over us.