[Swordmaster] Frontline Tank Builds

[Shing]

I'm interested in talking about SM as a tanky tank. The other SM thread discusses a lot about DPS potential of SM, so I figured I'd have one dedicated to serve as a sort reference for the role of the sturdy tank.

Builds: A work in progress, but try it out and let us know what you think.
SnB oRVR Group Utility

SnB oRVR PUG

Some tips from an experienced tank SM

Spoiler:

SnB vs 2h = HtL vs WoDS
= grp buff vs self buff.
and range avoid buff vs melee+range.

I see SM's selfish buffs as tools for vanguard role.
I run high toughness, avoidance and WoDS, plus
RR45 - max futile strike.
RR65 - max reflex.
rest - deft defender. or melee crit.
you can survive longer ,have more time to look around and witness flow of battle from start to end.
eventually you'll get the ability to see key moment of 'when', 'where'.

individual skills come next.
guard, snare, challenge, buff, debuff, simple use at right moment.

enemies will try to ignore you.
throw urself at thier way.
tanky tank need attitude of 'kill me first' .

tank tactics :
Impeccable Reactions. - 5sec bonus parry
Isha's Protection. - selfish heal buff
Vaul's Buffer. ( vaul 11 ) - 3sec bonus shield
Blessing of Heaven ( hoeth 11 ) - tiny heal
Great Weapon Mastery ( khaine 11 ) - 5% additional parry
I found Perfect Defenses, Calming Winds have little up time. you have to change stance constantly. no time to stay at perfect.
shields and tiny heals : synergy with toughness.
long life = many shields+tiny heals = less sustain dmg

SM tank skills :
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=21733
addition : Protection of Hoeth - it's 50ft grp shield.
Aethyric Armor is too fragile against shatter.

you can go tanky stat + GWM + ED build. mainly doing tank job, add assist dmg when it's free to dmg.
WW has more use in premade. in pug/solo you can still spam shatter enchant. buffer/debuffer.

you don't have to play guard/ww bot. it's only 1/3 of what SM tank do. staying in guard range require teamwork, responsive for both tank and guardee. don't be a bot.
2/3 is supporting: CC,buff/debuff. 3/3 is assisting: if you're at enemy backline hitting healer alone, find new target for guard/assist. probably your backline is melting, need ur help.

stance mechanic is good way to practice what u should do at certain moment.

[Shing]

I wanted to start by asking about tactics mainly in the setting oRVR, but I do like to pug scs every now and then. Currently running this (40/40 annih for +1 hoeth): Bubble + heal build
I know blessing of heaven is a weak heal but combined with wraith it was satisfying in the 2v2+wb fights the other day. I'm still playing with it to see if its worth it.

Not sure if it would be better to add more weak heals and WW. I'm thinking it would benefit the pug sc's at a cost of harming overall survival in oRVR.
WW+CW+Weak healing

Or drop them in favor of Calming Winds
Bubble + Calm winds

Or drop 2H entirely and go SnB
SnB turtle

I'll be testing stuff but am curious to hear others thoughts/experiences.

[Collateral]

Or drop 2H entirely and go SnB
SnB turtle

Going 2h in the first place is useless in a wb, so ofc you would be snb. Imho, sm without WW in a warband is worthless.

At rr 50 I would run this RoR.builders - Sword Master. Gives you a **** ton of defense with HTL if you maintain perfect balance. Granted, sorcs have been rendered useless so no competent warband would run them (but it comes in handy against pugs). With the new combat system, the tactics do actually give you less than the tooltip it seems, but still it's not bad. So instead of CW you can take aethyric armour, and use unstoppable juggernaut, or maybe impeccable reactions (sm doesn't quite have a lot of tanking tactics).

[Shing]

Or drop 2H entirely and go SnB
SnB turtle

Going 2h in the first place is useless in a wb, so ofc you would be snb. Imho, sm without WW in a warband is worthless.

At rr 50 I would run this RoR.builders - Sword Master. Gives you a **** ton of defense with HTL if you maintain perfect balance. Granted, sorcs have been rendered useless so no competent warband would run them (but it comes in handy against pugs). With the new combat system, the tactics do actually give you less than the tooltip it seems, but still it's not bad. So instead of CW you can take aethyric armour, and use unstoppable juggernaut, or maybe impeccable reactions (sm doesn't quite have a lot of tanking tactics).

Yeah I've been hesitant to drop the 2H which is silly. WoDS is fun though more seriously 2H tends to draw more enemy fire and the survivability wasn't bad but of course no added HTL effect. I'll have to try what you mentioned, it seems nice. Do you find the defensive increases are generally better than stacking bubbles?

[Collateral]

Yea the only thing about snb is HTL, which is simply a must have in a warband, so you can forget 2h. As far as stacking bubbles, I didn't get a chance to test it, I don't really play sm often. You could perhaps drop WW, but I doubt it's worth it. In massive zerg fights (which is now the norm in rvr), I don't think bubbles will help you much, especially against morale drops. If you stacked these bubbles it comes to what, around 1300 dmg if both are up? If both bubbles applied to the group I might actually consider it, but not like this. The thing is they are on cd, and the tactics you can keep up almost 100% uptime.

If you are running in a pug wb though, it's probably useless to have WW, so you can still do your bubble build. Considering how you will most likely have a lack of good healers, bubbles might help you in addition to the defensive tactics. So you can go with something like this RoR.builders - Sword Master.

If you on the other hand have good healers that you trust, you can drop isha's protection and take CW again RoR.builders - Sword Master.

I am yet to seriously test sm in a warband, since as I said, I play him rarely. But from trying it out a bit, you can be relatively tanky even bellow 40 rr.

[Shing]

I think HTL is my favorite skill in the game tbh. I like the bubbles as it provides something the other tanks don't have and going off the normal defensive tactics/abilities, other 2 tanks > SM. But like you mentioned I have my doubts about em. My suspicion is they are effective, to a point. Whereas stacking block+disrupt tactics leads to sturdiness regardless of the pressure.

[dansari]

The issue with SM in orvr is simply that they don't bring a lot of utility. You need to build a group around WW or it's pretty meh... even then it's pretty meh. Sure they bring stat steal, but they don't have an aoe slow, don't provide any armor/wounds debuffs, their morales are selfish, etc.

[Shing]

The issue with SM in orvr is simply that they don't bring a lot of utility. You need to build a group around WW or it's pretty meh... even then it's pretty meh. Sure they bring stat steal, but they don't have an aoe slow, don't provide any armor/wounds debuffs, their morales are selfish, etc.

I agree and that is why I'm leveling my kotbs and have a baby IB. That being said they bring a few unique things, albeit nothing too impressive, in battles where almost everyone is already snared and has two immunity cooldowns. But more importantly, a body in the frontline where order is often lacking outside of organized play.

I may resign to a dps SM as the dom gear comes in. But I want to be able to say that a SM can tank with the best of em if built right. Just have to prove it first.

[Wdova]

I would say building frontline SM as a tanky tank is just a waste of this character. If any SM worth to play max as off/deff mix. It shine as offensive tank. For turtle tanking or utility order has Kotbs and IB.

[Collateral]

You can definitely build a tanky snb sm for the frontline. But like dansari said, sm simply lacks utility other than WW, which is itself quite meh. That goes for pretty much every order tank, except kotbs ofc. Sm does have aoe punt, which can be very effective if used properly with other people who know what they are doing.