[Magus] Flashfire Mirror

[Jaycub]

1. Identify the issue.

Magus was and still is underperforming heavily, one of the major reasons cited being clunky rotations, immobility, cast times etc...


2. Explain why it's an issue.

Magus still hasn't broken into any kind of organized play outside of warband rift spec.


3. Propose a viable solution to the problem.

Mirroring the flashfire tactic that BW has (on disrupt your next cast time ability is instant cast), would imo give a lot more umph and relative mobility/smoothness to the playstyle that is severely lacking. It could be used to get a quick turret under certain circumstances, ease the pain of the rift nerf, and of course fishing for disrupts with AOE abilities like BW's do before starting a rotation for an instant 3 sec cast somewhere down the line. It's just a very simple buff that might just push magus quite a bit forward where it needs to be. Of course I still believe increasing damage isn't the solution, and it's really up to the devs and the patcher to make the class. But this could be a very interesting temporary change intermittent of that.

[Penril]

Moving to discussions.

Keep in mind that if you think one or 2 skills would be OP with this tactic, Torque can always limit the effect and make it not affect certain skills (like he did with Down Ya Go in the latest patch, and it not affecting certain Sorc/Chosen skills).

[Karast]

The main issue with this change is going to be instant BoC's, and thus unavoidable spike damage. Flashfire is a much decried BW tactic which many argue needs to be toned down or removed, moving it to magus is only going to cause the same arguments to pop up for magus.

BoC is a very high risk high reward ability that offers un-defend-able damage but with a long visible cast time. Remove that and then you have situations where the spike becomes largely unpredictable or avoidable, and in the process you make the new tactic a must spec in every ST and rift build.

A reduced version that worked off of a lone tree, or on a lone ability could work better, and be a more balanced solution. It might be a good fit for flickering red fire, or even in path of changing since changing is the weakest tree, and in the most need of help.

[Penril]

As I mentioned, some skills can be left out. So we could have a version that does not affect BoC (I also thought of that skill). A tactic like this one would be awesome for MBF for example.

(this is my last post as a player on this proposal)

[peterthepan3]

I don't agree with giving Havoc Magus any more mobility than it currently has, lest it start to tread into mobile DPS niche already covered by SH/SW.

Perhaps the Changing spec could use a few more mobile skills, but a flashfire effect wouldn't really do much/warrant a tactic slot over others, due to how meh changing abilities are (on the whole).

Not too sure people would want to choose from yet another tactic, among loads of good ones (at least for ST).

While I agree that insta BoCs could be considered a bit too much against pugs, one must bear in mind that: a) you don't kill people with Bolt alone; b) BoC should always be used in cojunction with another 2/3 abilities for max burst in one timestamp; essentially, insta bolts could actually end up messing up burst rotations and, perhaps, result in lower burst DPS rotations - but that would be the compromise (do I go for better burst or faster damage?)

If it were to not affect BoC, then I can hardly see why it would be taken over, say, 15% dmg, crit, crit dmg, EK, SVF 3 second, change range, etc etc (list goes on). I would not take a flashfire tactic if it were to not affect your spec's defining ability; you simply give up too many other goodies. Insta FRFs? Meh.

(I do agree with Penril that it would be nice in cojunction with MBF. I made a proposal about a year ago for insta MBF, but scratched it. As an ability, it's only real use is during FM)

[Arbich]

I would say the problem with magus (and engi) is that they are lean towards a static gameplay. I don´t see how your proposal will change this.

You could still give them a flashfire-mirror, but as penril said some abilities should be excluded.
While it is not really hard for a BW to procc flashfire, a magus (with the abilities he has), will have almost have guaranteed procc every 3 sec.

Bolt of Change should be excluded, because it would be too OP (undefendable, very long range).
Demon summoning should also be excluded, because they already have a tactic for these.

[peterthepan3]

Bolt of Change should be excluded, because it would be too OP (undefendable, very long range).

Which, again, begs the question: why would you honestly consider taking the tactic over any of the other aforementioned tactics? To benefit PotW, on a 30 second CD? MBF, on a 10 second CD? You would spend most of its uptime spamming insta-FRFs, which ultimately won't kill any decent target.

I guess I just need Jay to clarify what sort of purpose the tactic would serve in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, if the stars align, you might get a nice RNG-reliant proc at the right time to coincide with a BoC rotation - but abilities having cast-times isn't actually a bad thing for the standard BoC-SOI/PotW-SVF/IFOC rotation. In fact, only BoC & second ability in rotation (which should always be either PotW or SOI) would have a casttime; SVF and IFOC are instas. If BoC were not affected, then only second ability would be insta - but this would actually hinder your max burst because the ability would be hitting before BoC has even reached target.

[Penril]

Well... that's unfortunate.

Declining for now.