[Engineer] Auto Attack/range and some other stuff

[Yamashiro]

Ahoy, fellow Engineers.

A simple question, which should only have one answer, what makes the engineer so superior to the magus that the engineer shouldn't have his Auto Attack adjusted to the effective range he gets with the different turret buffs?

I guess now is the time to mention that I've played well over 2.2k hrs over the course of 1 year on the mythic servers combined on my engineer and magus both rr80 with full sov gear. And I also have 2 engineers and 1 magus since t2 release on the ror server.

Now the thing that cheeses my onions is that magus already has the advantage of dealing ele/spirit dmg whilst engineer does physical/corp but now apparently I have to guess If I'm in auto attack range or not.

The other thing I'd mention and people usually bring up as argument is that engineer has Unshakable Focus which is a 1minutes cd m2 that increases (additive) your damage by 100% for 7 sec, while that sounds overpowered, apparently it was nerfed due to engineer and magus getting a 20% dmg buff and it's uses were limited anyways.

Whilst the engineer has to sacrifice an arm and a leg to get to the desired stats/skills with massive downsides the magus has one build that gives him all and more. For example specs I use:

Engineer
RoR.builders - Engineer

RoR.builders - Engineer

RoR.builders - Engineer

Magus
RoR.builders - Magus

Compared to the engineer the magus spec gets everything he needs 15% crit for his main abilities and he can spec into changing for another spell that has 125+ ft range and gives ap reg on kill + 50% more crit damage on 3 major abilities, on the other side the engineer has 3 different specs all of them not getting quite where magus is since crit is in the tinkerer tree and limited to your pet/20 ft range upside is its for all abilities, but corp resist debuff scaling for incendiary round, flashbang grenade, friction burn, sticky bomb, phosphorous rounds is in grenadier.

There is of course a lot more to engineer and magus I just wanted to bring up some points.

If you want engineer/magus to work remove the immobility nonsense increase the engi/magus base dmg by 20% but make the turrets a 1 min cd that is instant lasts for 15 sec, increase the turrets damage by a significant amount and give each turret different buffs that suit the playstyle, for example gun turret increases your armor pen by 20% and dmg by 10% or something. Which retains a certain playstyle around burst dmg and turrets but doesn't completely disable you when you're getting pushed or your pet dies.


And lastly everyone who thinks magus or engineer are op since the changes, nothing changed, kill their pet = -40% dmg forces them to retreat and completely disables them. And for the extra range part: Ask yourself the question how many scenarios are there where you can make full use of it?

If you made it this far thanks for reading and happy hunting.

[Glorian]

On the last talks head Dev said that Turrets will stay as they are currently for a while.

So if or when further balancing starts it will be with these turrets.

[ToXoS]

I dream of a "loner" or "all by meself" tactic for engie and magus. +25% damage when no pets summoned.

[peterthepan3]

I dream of a "loner" or "all by meself" tactic for engie and magus. +25% damage when no pets summoned.

That already exists: its called a sorcerer/bw.

[Karast]

The whole physical damage thing is a huge issue. But it is not just an engi thing. It hits all prdps in the same way. SH and SW are not that much better off when to comes to armor mitigation, and anyone that says to run WS has not actually ran the numbers. WS is a joke on rdps. It doesn't take much actual testing to see how ineffective it is to stack, and that you do more damage over-stacking BS then you do from stacking WS in it's place. If you don't believe do actual tests and I will compare my data with yours. But right now 1160 BS and 340WS is better than 1060BS and 600WS hands down.

But unless engi gets completely redesign to a magic dps to match magus there is no real way to balance them out fully. If armor stacking got nerfed or capped, or if engi got an armor ignore it would just tip the balance the other way.

On the matter of tactics, I agree that magus has some nice tactics, but it is the same for engi. Concussive Mines, and Hollow Points are solid tactics, and while tracer rounds is inconvenient for a rifle / grenade engi, it works well for a tinker, where magus don't have the same option which hurts their WB spec.

Seeing a bit of tactics cross mirrored would actually do a lot for both, and there are enough junk tactics on either side that could be replaced to allow for Concussive Mines + Hollow Points, and Flame's Kiss + Surging Power to be mirrored. Giving room to more spec options, while still being limited due to the fact that engi and magus lack any kind of tactic freedom at all really.

There are a lot of cases where a bit of cross mirroring of functional tactics between mirrors can do a lot to improve functionality between careers and overall faction balance. Some tactics work, were others don't, and in this game a lot of builds and even group meta can boil down to 1 tactic.

[peterthepan3]

Think Aza stated a few times that such problems (armor mitigation vs physical rdps) won't exist here. Hoping it is true!

[ToXoS]

I dream of a "loner" or "all by meself" tactic for engie and magus. +25% damage when no pets summoned.

That already exists: its called a sorcerer/bw.

Even back in the day, when engie and magus had a +50% damage bonus with turrets/daemons, they were far from doing the same amount of damage and burst than a sorc/bw.
So +25% bonus damage? It doesn't seems OP imo.

But hey, if I can make magus stop completely relying on an immobile pet and finally have some fun in a battle that is not at a BO or a keep, I think it's worth saying the idea.
Just imagine, a magus being finally free to move around and be (more or less) effective...
But as I said, it's a dream.

Also, sorry, this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

[Karast]

Think Aza stated a few times that such problems (armor mitigation vs physical rdps) won't exist here. Hoping it is true!

At this point I really think that it might need to be a tiered system with different caps for different armor types.

But currently for prdps in a premade setting you can be completely shut down due to enemy comps.

As an engi /sw facing chosen - mara - bo - dok - zealot or some combination of that is awful. You face at least 65-75% mitigation on everything then add in toughness, and debuffs. A 3k snipe turns into a 400 crit with 2.6k mitigated. Even with a WL debuff it still isn't functional with the best WS spec.

It is the same for SH when they hit WL groups order side. It's soul crushing at times. It really is.

[Ugle]

So how is the WS calculation and WS effect on both dots/insta casts and longer cast skills again? Experimenting with 950 bs - 650/700 ws on my SW these days

[Rozackroo]

Think Aza stated a few times that such problems (armor mitigation vs physical rdps) won't exist here. Hoping it is true!

At this point I really think that it might need to be a tiered system with different caps for different armor types.

But currently for prdps in a premade setting you can be completely shut down due to enemy comps.

As an engi /sw facing chosen - mara - bo - dok - zealot or some combination of that is awful. You face at least 65-75% mitigation on everything then add in toughness, and debuffs. A 3k snipe turns into a 400 crit with 2.6k mitigated. Even with a WL debuff it still isn't functional with the best WS spec.

It is the same for SH when they hit WL groups order side. It's soul crushing at times. It really is.

Oh really you have a armor reduction yourself and tell me you face 2.6k mitigation. Pic or it didn't happen or stop hitting defftank....
+ Generally people have more disrupt than dodge.
I don't get it. I would be glad to have a second stat to go for because you hit the soft cap very quick. How often do I face people with 50%+ mitigation after resi debuff (due to kotbs running around everywhere) and there is nothing I can do to lower it further. Then go further and compare some of the core skills both have and you find skills on engi I'd love to switch (Focus fire 3s canalized dmg vs Blue mutating fire, the 10 trillion s long cast which will just be disrupted anyway)
+The engi has THE best moral set vs magus who has the same crappy **** every other caster gets.
If you bring the argument "well armor will rise and rise" okay I get it it would suck but it's not the case now and they said this shouldn't be a problem in the future. Therefore armor will rise slowly and together with ws to compensate.

You can see balance fairly easy by comparison of the magus pop. vs engi pop. and you will find a huge amount of active engis vs few magus players.