[Edit] BO: Big Brawlin'

[Tesq]

Analysis:

Make big swing skill also a:
-no CD aoe snare (4-5 actually due meccanic)
-no CD aoe disorients (4-5 actually due meccanic)

Problems:
Per se the tactic is unbalanced where it do not have relative medium or medium high CD for the snare component. Snare have no core immunity in game and is one of the best tool to not give those immunity to enemy targets and either anyway is overused in the game for keep enemy movement under controll (such controll tanks + punt or be able to kite).
All other snare in game are subject to either a CD:
-1min if MORALES or 1 min if linked to another CC which give immunity (like SM moral snare or engi snare tactic after root)
-20 sec as in case of BG/IB core simple aoe snare cc
-it outshine BG snare with no trade off
-it also disorient for greater skill economy
-It's also ' better than IB/Kobs version other than be better than the normal BG/IB version


Why:
-the trade off is either a efficent of 100% due being undefitable for a high CD or relative not high CD for used the aoe snare more frequently (wher more frequently usually imply a min CD to balance the fact that snare have no immunity as stag/KB).

1) In case of BG/SM/IB cross mirror cc have a fair trade off because you are accessing something that should be a unique utility from another tank: BO/SM/IB/BG all have access to more than 1 type of CC which is not their own. Of these btw BG/SM/IB all have fair trade off for be able to use another cc:

IB for be able to use another snare also KB which give an immunity so the snare cannot be spam or used per se, it is linked to confer a immunity. The snare here is a secondary effect the skill in fact thave 10sec CD because the the KB per se confer an immunity higer than 30 sec...
BG/SM have morales which imply undefitable CC but traded for 1 min CD and use these will exclude ALL other morales for 1 min + moral build time.

->BO it just make able to use one of his ability in every rotation which also do not require 2h to be able to spam it in every 2-3 skill chain (depending on plan change if avaiable or not but with 4 sec CD it is once every rotation).

2) BG main CC is exatly the aoe snare, and it's outshined by BO

3) Plus add the fact that this also give also a spamable disorients which hit healers and engi/sw for the most togheter with the snare components and so imply a great skill economy on a class which alredy have a lot due stats steal FOR NO IMMUNITY.

4) like this it have no skill compenent regarding time decision, it makes you use it every time staple, such good eff should imply a decision regarding when use it; be able to spam it make it totally easy to use as you have no CD associate with it and really hard to counter due the spammy nature making every cleanse alsmot wasted.

5) in small skirm 1 BO can keep snare multiple ppl doing the work of multipe tanks , dosen't matter the comp (2-3-1/2-2-2), Bo can actually act as:
A) the stat steal tank
B)the magic dmg reduction tank and
C) the tank which can both spam aoe KD and aoe Snare.

It's basically buff every single stat you have on the rooster and als offer 2 of the best CC in game both spamable. Other tanks have an update time of 50% or a 1 min CD because they have moral cc. Usually the secondary CC aquired from another classes is not gave without trade off; IB have acces to a 50% update time snare (not core snare i meant the tactic) but also give immunity due the KB.
BG/SM have 1 min CD for the moral and all their morales cannot be used for again for 1 min.
It's rather irrelevant the size of the fight ; 9 target is the max cap for every aoe skill and in small skirmish it's overkilling


Solution:
The tactic will do the same eff but will apply a right CD to the skill. The CD must be decided keep in comparison 1 min CD cc morales, 20 sec CD skill and the uptime of the snare of 50% from IB for the sake of balance.

The range must be inside a range of :
-min 20+ sec CD because less it remain spamable or almost spamable
-Max 50 sec CD because is not undefitable as a moral
-it may be add a surpluss of 5-10 sec due the disorient effect ( may even not depend of CD,due as compared to IB case in this one snare would be the main effect and such disorient will be a plus but the skill would be used most for the snare component so a high enough CD just for that would make unecessary an additional CD)
-cannot have a perfect 50% update time ; IB tactic snare + KB give immunity for 50% update time, BO give no immunity at all

Solution sum:
-snare last 5 sec but CD increase to 10-> 15 sec due considering disorient and no imunity given
-Snare last 10 sec but CD increased to 20 sec -> 25 due considering disorient and no imunity given
-Snare last 15 sec but CD increase to 30 sec -> 35 due considering disorient and no imunity given
-Snare last 10 sec but CD increase to 30 sec -> 35 sec due considering disorient and no imunity given
- in alternative ignore the +5 due the disorientand no imunity given (dont like this one)
- in alternative make it require 2h?
- others...

in addition: if game test prove that after a longer CD the skill is not ista avaiable due the meccanic rotation then the 5 sec increase due disorient and no immunity given can be removed and can remain the 10/20/30 sec of CD based on the solution previously adopted.

[Gerv]

HI Tesq, while you do set out the issue of BO snare having little drawbacks with skill economy and lack of cool-down compared to other tank AoE snares and its impact on the place of the BG your solutions are out of touch, i have a few comments,

**Get the name of the tactic right the first time or it will be declined right away**

The IB and BG snares are both 50% upt times, with 20 second cool-downs which match the duration of the majority of the IBs abilities and debuffs and is on par with the BGs other CC cooldowns.

Your solution of adding a 30 second cool-down would mean 16% up time on the snare, much lower efficiency than the IB and BG. They also require a tactic in a tree with not many other group buffs in, bar if you took No, Choppin' Me, so there is a trade off in terms of mastery paths.

The solution of adding a 40 second cool-down would create an aprox 12% uptime and be completely out of line with the rest of the BO rotaiton, completly killing it.

In addition to your proposed solutions, you need to consider this ability from the perspective of both 6v6/small scale, for example, the impact on 3-2-1 tanking grp set ups when facing 2-2-2 set ups or tank choice, and a warband scale (I assume this is your current view).

I will give you two weeks to edit this proposal in light of my comments, after which I will review it and accept or decline.

[Gerv]

Hi Tesq, unfortunatley, this will be declined.

1) There are too many solutions for a directed, through discussion to be had -
1.2) Therre are too many alternative options to the solutions (2hd, testing period) you need to explain why these. Otherwise people will focus on these.
2) You don't explain the reasons for the solutions in a way that can be debated and discussed clearly.
3) you fail to consider the IB ability Earthshatter - 9pts Path of Brotherhood
4) the reasoning around the IB tactic + snare is irreverent due to Earthshatter
5) You fail to consider the position of the BO on the battlefield in relation to the influence of the disorient in your solutions.

If you have any questions, PM me and I will further explain.
- Gerv