Some needed 6v6 changes

[Niky]

Alot of peoples like warhammer directly for pvp. This game is the one that requires you to kill enemies if you want to win, not doing non-pvp objectives.

But atm we can see how war was filled with lots of pve scens, and those pve scens are providing huge reward for objectives.

That conception is just nonsense, the pvp that not requires any playervsplayer engagement to win. I understand, that system was created for pugs so every undergeared person would have illusion of winning. But why we have no 6v6 stimylation?

I suggest that caledor need some changes like:
1. Mastery and renown trainers at warcamp;
2. No guards (for what fo you need them in 6v6?).

And the main thing, we are in need of increased rewards for 6v6 and especially for winning. So every 6v6 will go fight in caledor and will not bother any pugs vs pugs scenarios.

[sanii]

Alot of peoples like warhammer directly for pvp. This game is the one that requires you to kill enemies if you want to win, not doing non-pvp objectives.

But atm we can see how war was filled with lots of pve scens, and those pve scens are providing huge reward for objectives.

That conception is just nonsense, the pvp that not requires any playervsplayer engagement to win. I understand, that system was created for pugs so every undergeared person would have illusion of winning. But why we have no 6v6 stimylation?

I suggest that caledor need some changes like:
1. Mastery and renown trainers at warcamp;
2. No guards (for what fo you need them in 6v6?).

And the main thing, we are in need of increased rewards for 6v6 and especially for winning. So every 6v6 will go fight in caledor and will not bother any pugs vs pugs scenarios.

Aggre on both , altho for your nr 2 point you have this :

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=16406&hilit=Caledo ... 70#p180837

Edit: you are fast torquebuddy , there are screenshots of how close you can get to guards aswell, the only annoyance is that some people will knock you intentionally in so we have a stance where whenever someone knocks us into guards intentionally, we just cap the point.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

2. No guards (for what fo you need them in 6v6?).

When kiters start to run in circles they get caught. That's why.

[Saftdryck]

I agree with Niky's suggestion. Also could we get Eternal Citadel back and maybe some other map specifiaccly for 6vs6 for the rotation?

I think there should be some normal scenario maps that ONLY gives points from kills, not PvE/BO holding, for example map like Reikland Hills without BOs.

[peterthepan3]

I'd like having a mastery trainer at the warcamp in Caledor Woods, would be very useful. Agree with you regarding rewards.

I get where you're coming from torque and the 6v6 community is small, but ain't caledor woods the 6v6 scenario atm?

[Ktana]

Im constantly told by 6v6ers that the increased skill levels required and close, competitive fights are the rewards they are constantly seeking....... is this not the case?

This (fight with the only purpose of fight itself, without any profit) never works in MMO. You either stimulate it with some in game profit to aquire attention (to make it worthwhile for your character to participate in) or it will draw less and less attention with future loss of interest to this part of the game.

[Penril]

Im constantly told by 6v6ers that the increased skill levels required and close, competitive fights are the rewards they are constantly seeking....... is this not the case?

This (fight with the only purpose of fight itself, without any profit) never works in MMO. You either stimulate it with some in game profit to aquire attention (to make it worthwhile for your character to participate in) or it will draw less and less attention with future loss of interest to this part of the game.

Have to call BS on this. I don't remember anyone on live telling the other side "hey, Q for this 6v6 SC so we can have a fight".

Nope. 6v6 were done in uncontested zones, so the only rewards were the renown you got from kills and the occasional item/medallion. You didn't have extra rewards (like you do when winning the SC). Not even renown ticks for being in the RvR zone since, as I mentioned, this was done in uncontested zones.

Guess what: people did a lot of 6v6 back then.

[dur3al]

Im constantly told by 6v6ers that the increased skill levels required and close, competitive fights are the rewards they are constantly seeking....... is this not the case?

So if they've a full group, but one or two of the players are newly geared, they'll just not go for the 6v6 scenarios since there is nothing for them and will change for the "regular" queue and stomp pugs... it is a chain effect, you can't try to please only the pugs, because even after a while... pugs become part of a premade/group with friends and guildies, and the same circle continues.

Im constantly told by 6v6ers that the increased skill levels required and close, competitive fights are the rewards they are constantly seeking....... is this not the case?

This (fight with the only purpose of fight itself, without any profit) never works in MMO. You either stimulate it with some in game profit to aquire attention (to make it worthwhile for your character to participate in) or it will draw less and less attention with future loss of interest to this part of the game.

Exactly my point, without any incentive (or downright resistance), groups will just drop to stomp "pug" queues, not because they're weak, not because they're unfair, not because they're mean, but simply because they need to do it in order to farm emblems in a steady way to gear themselfs up. And you'll have more people crying about premades in regular scenarios.

Have to call BS on this. I don't remember anyone on live telling the other side "hey, Q for this 6v6 SC so we can have a fight".

Nope. 6v6 were done in uncontested zones, so the only rewards were the renown you got from kills and the occasional item/medallion. You didn't have extra rewards (like you do when winning the SC). Not even renown ticks for being in the RvR zone since, as I mentioned, this was done in uncontested zones.

Guess what: people did a lot of 6v6 back then.

Only when the premade is already fully geared without anything else to look forward in terms of gear or renown gain. But until then premades with lowbie characters or not fully geared ones will still use the regular queue system, for the purpose of only leveling up, just like people join in bo/keep attack/defense to gain rr/medallions and what not.

I also remember a lot of organized 6v6 events, which were held in PTS because there you could build your char with all the high-end items, and that was the reason, to not have an unbalanced fight due gear. Or when it happened on live servers, it was mostly done by full rr100 groups etc.

[Akalukz]

All i see is... we don't win as often now because pugs are in thier own scenario. I mean I know niky runs a really good group. I have been up against his groups. But wow.

To Rewards... I think you could use it as encouragement to queeu for group scenarios. A blank extra amount of renown / medalions / gold regardless of win lose.

Spoiler:

i find it funny that for years the pugs have asked for a scenario where they stood a chance to get rewards...with the premads saying that the fight it self was the rewards... since they were getting both. But now it's we need more rewards... strange.

Scenarios, I agree there seems to be a large amound of scenarios that are objective based. Not sure what can be done about this tho. You can win an objective based scenario without capping, you just need to dominate.. Which is by killing relentlessly. It's actually one of the best rewarding ways to win a scenario.

Taking out guards just resounds as I want to be able to grief players and kill them as they spawn. (I use my pull to pull a person to the guards, but only under a very specific circumstance in scnenarios. If the "spawn" camping side is just that.. spawn camping and not caping or holding the part etc. Bet your ass I will grief as I am being griefed

Trainer in Scenario - Great Idea, would help a lot of things, possibly even allow a little more start time in the group scenarios. Even go as far as saying be able to respec with the use of Emblems.

[UmmOK]

2. No guards (for what fo you need them in 6v6?).

When kiters start to run in circles they get caught. That's why.

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that spawn point guards and ORvR camp guards are an integral part of any kiting classes attack rotation? A necessary part of their skill set?

My class, like most others, have never kited anyone to a spawn point guard or camp guard as part of our plan to get a kill or survive an encounter with the enemy. That said, there have been more times than I can count that I have been punted into guards and killed. Rarely do i follow a kiter to my death anymore, but it has happened in T2 as I remember. If you honestly feel the only recourse the kiting class has to avoid death is to have an NPC kill for them, I say remove the class. Why is it that you feel so strongly that the Kiting Classes should not die in RvR that you try and justify exploiting the guard mechanics to avoid death?

Back on track:

If the 6v6 Scenarios were void of camp guards so that the kiting classes, the pull classes, and the uber punt classes could not exploit the guard mechanic, there would need to be some sort of a reset once one 6-man group was either killed completely or the last member of the losing side had some sort of surrender button. AT that point, both teams would be reset to spawn and the fight would start again. Dead members would have to wait in spawn until their team won or wiped. Once both teams are back to full, the match begins again. IMO combat Rezzes SHOULD be allowed, but shorten the available timer on these to 7 seconds. After 7 seconds, the killed player is sent to wait in the spawn.

The fights would be void of PvE "objectives" per se, but the matches would be best of 3 wins. The winning team wiping the opposition 2 of 3 times minimum. If one team wins the first two matches, the SC is over.

Because there are no PvE objectives in these matches, the renown gains for kills should be adjusted up, and the percent chance of medallion drops should also be adjusted up somewhat. How much, I have no way of knowing what would be fair, maybe a 10% to 15% increase for both? I'll leave that up to the programmers.

With a group spawn and reset for the opposing team, there would be no need of PvE Guards to exploit for cheap kills. And with both of the groups resetting to spawn after a group wipe, there would be no spawn camping.