Improving RvR - some brainstorming

[Cornerback]

Hi guys and girls,

some guildies are currently brainstorming some ideas to try to bring some balance to RvR, and I wanted to share the results with you.

* = Edits.

What do we know:
- People love to zerg
- People love to win
- People love to feel like they are awesome badass godlike smashas
- Getting zerged sucks
- noone wants to get slaughtered by a zerg

What are our intentions:
- slow down the zerg
- give people incentives to face the zerg
- make people feel like they can actually change something when they are getting outnumbered

What we were thinking about:
- make stats and damage (ONLY to players, so they don't solo take keeps) of players scale with AAO, but limit it to a certain point
- maybe make a queue system, so people (a group for example, no solo players to stop imbalanced roaming WEs/WHs) can queue at the keep lord to become the "champions" and then help to defend the zone
- * remove the boost when people don't actively fight for x minutes
- give the ppl with AAO a big boost, so they get really strong.
- like, "a group can slaughter a WB"-strong
- to keep it balanced, make the strong players always show on the map, so the zerg can seek and destroy them
- also, make them drop much better loot like more medaillons or one annihilator item per champ etc.

The expected results:
- underdogs can feel like gods and actually change something despite being outnumbered (i mean, who doesnt want to slaughter opponents like in a splatter movie)
- the zerg might split, or people might relog, so the "champs" get weaker as the AAO gets down
- the zerg actually has a challenge to kill the champs for better rewards
- champs still have to work together so they don't get zerged one after another

Why would ppl want to be champs?
- feel like a boss!!!
- renown, exp, influence (aao)

Why would ppl want to face champs?
- Great loot
- actual challenge compared to zerging empty zones
- feeling like doing an epic bossfight.

What if Bretin is champ and keeps slaughtering everyone because he is imbalanced?
- change zones
- spread the zerg
- xrealm
- get more ppl there to zerg them down


Actual boost, loot etc. have to be evaluated and tested of course.

Discuss

[Telen]

These power fantasists would use their new found epeen to farm randoms at wc or on their way to keep not attack the zerg. They would need to be clearly marked on the map at all times so they have to fight the zerg and not just be a asshat.

[Cornerback]

Yup, thats what we thought. Make them clear and obvious targets for the zerg.

And if they keep farming randoms while there is a zerg running around, the zerg+randoms have to reorganize to fight the champs. Thats what this game is about

[Telen]

You could make it a 10 minute buff that has to be recharged at keep or bos so the champ has to goto where they would fight large numbers. This would also stop people either wasting it or xrealming to tie up the champ.

[Nameless]

stats/damage buff for outnumbered side is not the way to go
it wont work and it is possible to break even more the orvr

[Cornerback]

You could make it a 10 minute buff that has to be recharged at keep or bos so the champ has to goto where they would fight large numbers. This would also stop people either wasting it or xrealming to tie up the champ.

Good idea

[Luicetarro]

Sadly this would even lead to more zerging.

Why should you form a small group, if your enemy is scaled to the total value? So if you encounter a boosted Champion, you'll get wrecked, because you don't like to zerg and try to fight in a small group.
Endresult would be ... more zerging, because you can't fight your enemy anymore, without numbers.

[wanna993]

This sounds like a terrible idea. Anything that boosts your stats so that you can feel really strong is just going to be way too broken.

The way to fix RvR is to redesign the zone to encourage smaller scale groups to roam and break up the zerg or make it inefficient. Think of it like wow's AV or gw2 wvwvw. Now in addition to multiple objectives those examples also have a population limit which of course greatly helps.

A way to help Rvr would be adding a number of extra objectives to the 2 keeps/4 BOs. Think of it as: 2 or more small groups would outcap the zerg forcing the zerg to break off. In a way the 4bo + keep for lock is going in that direction. The issue is still the 15min lock timer on BOs.

You could add new BOs (lets randomly say 4 new ones) but you'd only need 6 or 7 for lock. 2 6/12 mans could rotate and flip them a lot faster than a single zerg could. An alternative is lower the lock timers so you have to leave people behind. Or you could design the map differently and have different types of Bos and each has a lock %. So you could have small BOs with only 3 champs and normal BOS with 5. Small ones are worth 5%, bigger ones more. You could add a small keep (T2 ones, only the structure no walls), and have the bigger ones. You'd have 125% worth of BOs and would need 100% for lock. Now this requires a ton of work and making rvr up from scratch (changing the world, scripting new npcs ect). But the base idea is still: more objectives to thin zergs or make them inefficient.

It's similar in some ways to the T4 pq situation where you end up with 30+ ppl (few days ago with the afkers). Main reason so many were concentrated in one place was the lack of working PQ. More working pqs, a more even spread.


EDIT: also your statement that "people love to zerg" just sounds wrong. I can't speak for others but I hate zergs because your own contribution isn't as meaningful. People just zerg because it's more efficient to be on the loot train (keeps got changed though rewards wise). and because things like keeps take forever/are impossible for smaller groups.

[navis]

Honestly, right now I don't know what to expect with the RvR system from here on out. I'm calling for a lot of changes to fundamentals of RvR to all tiers. Prediction is that probably the middle tiers are going to feel empty and the RvR keep swap boredom in those tiers will need to be overhauled (I hope).

So my ideas concerning rewards are that:
keeps and BO's need a buff around them which makes them premium areas for earning rewards, and when the that objective is taken or defended, succesfully, your given an extra portion of your kills/renown back.
So 2 reasons to fight around Objectives 1) earn greated %drop rate + renown 2) get a extra portion for lockdown/defense.
This 'buff' only in effect when the Objective is actually open for take/defense.

I think this will be pretty good for the game.

[navis]

This sounds like a terrible idea. Anything that boosts your stats so that you can feel really strong is just going to be way too broken.

T

Actually it's just like the 'Warlord' mechanic from 1.4 City Sieges. It worked very well and was fun. It only worked because of the limited number of Warlord available.
I think it could be used in the game, maybe some sort of event?