Some reflections on melee SW

[Deadpoet]

Reflections on Assault Stance

Hi there, I've been playing a melee SW lately and I have found the class to be really fun and full of possibilities, but sorely lacking in some aspects.

First of all, melee SW, at least at this stage, has no burst at all in comparison with any “real” mdps (except when morale 2 kicks in ofc)

Secondly, the fact that the SW (and Herder I believe) is the only class with a fully strictly MELEE skill tree that has no access to either dual wield or greatweapon really cripples the melee SW.

Thirdly, the assault tree is not as useful as it could be due to the fact that it contains at least one absolute garbage ability (Sweeping Slash), a really weak channel (Swift Strikes) only efficient against non-DoK healers or really dumb casters, and a good tactic that was much better some years ago on live before it was changed (No respite)

-On the plus side, Disarm and Knockdown are nice tools and they dont require parry.. Also stacking armor provides nice returns in assault stance. We have no sever blessing or enchantment (and “ranged” classes aren't supposed to anyway I believe, but at least we have an interrupt on a longish cd.

MUST READ FIRST:
Before I propose things let me remind that while SWs were felt to be OP in T2, it seems WLs and BWs are the classes that destro is whining more about in T3, and the general consensus is SWs game impact is considerably lessened in T4 due to high armor mitigation etc.. Not to mention the recent nerf to Festerbomb build. Also remember that assault build is clearly the least played of all three SW tress, (for a reson). (translation: please don't flame me too hard ) I also acknowledge in advance my lack of expertise and my general non-importance in this forum as a negligible idealistic and clueless poster.

SUGGESTIONS:
1- Sweeping Slash (deals 209 damage 25ft in front of you, 10 secs cd) This useless (pve?) ability would have some kind of sense if it snared (No Escape)or debuffed armor or made enemies easier to be crit (Crimson Death)or at least had its cd removed (Demolition).

2- Swifts Strikes would be more useful if its base damage was brought in line with other melee channels, eliminating the damage increase when the enemy is building an abiliy which wouldn't be necessary.

3. I remember back in the day when No Respite gave like (don't remember exactly) 35% more damage under 45ft away from target at the cost of losing like 25% damage when over 45ft from the target.. We can play with figures but the idea is really good if it means an increase from the 15% we have now.

4. Brutal Assault was once described as a (very) poor man's version of Torment. At least make it to match the tooltip. It IS supposed to be usable from every position if you are vengeful (VoN). This wasnt corrected on live and it hasn't been yet afaik.

5. Last but not least. There must be some really good reason for SWs and Herders to be the only classes with a full melee skill tree that don't have access to either dual wield or greatweapon, but I can't think of them. Please enlighten me.

P.S: As Reesh kindly pointed out to me in an earlier post:
“Assault stance doubles your armor, right? But did you know, that armor debuff that someone puts on you, also has it's amount doubled?
Example: You've got 3000 armor, SH places his armor debuff on you with amount of -700 armor, but stance makes it to -1400 as it's doubled, so you're back to being squishy once again.”

This should be fixed.

[noisestorm]

1) Could indeed have some rework.

2)Isnt that bad.

3) 35% together with the 25% from vengeance is just too brutal of a dmg boost. No need for that.

4) Brutal Assault does work, the skill is still greyed out though. Also the tooltip value should be a lot higher than the one of Torment.

5) IF they have DW AND a Bow, they would pretty much get too many free stats.

[Deadpoet]

Hmm I dont understand about Brutal Assault sorry. What I see is that the ability works when behind the enemy, but it SHOULD work form any position when under the effects of VoN. And I completely agree with you that BA should deal MUCH MORE dmg than Torment considering it isn't spammable.

Maybe you are right about No Respite. However the penalty paid maybe makes the tactic not too OP, as it deprives SW of much of his ranged potential.

I see your point with dualwield AND Bow having too many stat points combined. You are absolutely right. Even a Greatweapon AND a bow would have too many stats. How about allowing SWs to wield a Greatweapon with 1handed stats but 2 handed damage and speed? I think that would be only fair.

[Jaycub]

5) IF they have DW AND a Bow, they would pretty much get too many free stats.

why not have assault stance duplicate your sword in the offhand similar to how mara works, and "unequip" the bow. Or just have the stances turn off and on the bow/offhand sword.

[noisestorm]

If you use VoN you can use BA from every position. Just like i said it 'looks' like it is rgeyed out - still working though. Also alone from the WarBuilder the basevalue of BA is indeed higher than the one of Torment, dont know the real values for lvl32, but i also have in mind that it was stronger back on live.

And no, SW really does not need a 2handed weapon. I would totally love having it DW, but i dont think theres any way to make that work on a statwise balanced area. Also Squigherders may demand something similar.. and DualWield spears are not exactly what i think is working either

@Jay: THe problem is that certain skills you want to use in Assault (like healdebuff, or any dots) require you to have a bow, because theyre ranged skills. You cannot simply disable the bow for the Meleestance

[Aquilon]

5) IF they have DW AND a Bow, they would pretty much get too many free stats.

2hander looks badass, though.


Stats gained from renown points and tactic (Masterful Aim) are not affected by stance conversion. Maybe, maybe, this should be reconsidered (at least for the tactic), to make assault spec more viable, even without proposed skills revamp (which is good).

[Scrilian]

Why can't Sweeping Slash become a copy of Bad Gas? :^)
At least that makes anyone to take a Melee SH in their warband.

[Sigimund]

5) IF they have DW AND a Bow, they would pretty much get too many free stats.

why not have assault stance duplicate your sword in the offhand similar to how mara works, and "unequip" the bow. Or just have the stances turn off and on the bow/offhand sword.

Or a bonus on the 1H+ranged combo like you get parry on DW and strikethrough on 2H?

[noisestorm]

Why can't Sweeping Slash become a copy of Bad Gas? :^)
At least that makes anyone to take a Melee SH in their warband.

I smell Orderbias

[Vdova]

Hmm I dont understand about Brutal Assault sorry. What I see is that the ability works when behind the enemy, but it SHOULD work form any position when under the effects of VoN. And I completely agree with you that BA should deal MUCH MORE dmg than Torment considering it isn't spammable.

Maybe you are right about No Respite. However the penalty paid maybe makes the tactic not too OP, as it deprives SW of much of his ranged potential.

I see your point with dualwield AND Bow having too many stat points combined. You are absolutely right. Even a Greatweapon AND a bow would have too many stats. How about allowing SWs to wield a Greatweapon with 1handed stats but 2 handed damage and speed? I think that would be only fair.

I dont know how about in RoR,but I have played SW back on live with all of his possible specs including melee one. I had no issue to 1v1 any melee dps(off/deff balanced tanks was problem)

Dont forget You have m2 so You can burst someone down even faster than mdps.

If melee abbilities works as on live and You are properly speced(also in renowns) and geared,You should be fine.

If You compare torment with brutal assault it should do probably little more dmg,but You should never reach same melee potential as standard mdps class,because you are still hybrid. compare to mdps,You can kite,cc and debuff from range and finish in melee range in melee stance.