[Disciple of Khaine] Terrifying Aura

[aelic]

So i believe we have clearly seen the difference the aoe detaunt for wp have done, it help alot for the survivability.
And afterall the Dok have the simular problem with getting prio targeted on the front line with burstDmg/knockdown/disarm etc. Going up against any group with the slightest brain and you got to resort to staying on the backlines and hoping that some order gets back to you to be able to bash out some heals.

Longer story short i believe the Dok should also get the aoe detaunt when dual wielding swords to be able to stay with the mdps and help the team insted of running in and dieing or staying as a guard with the rdps and healers



What are your opinion on Doks?

Maby just wait untill T4 to be able to spec in to it insted?

[TenTonHammer]

The problem I see is that and from what I saw in the grace wp thread was that dps DoK is much better than 2h wp becacuse of all the parry DoK gets

[Azarael]

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

[aelic]

dps DoK is much better than 2h wp becacuse of all the parry DoK gets

Then would it not have been better to give the WP higer change to parry from a tactic or something alike then giving them the free aoe detaunt that works against rdps aswell. i keep seeing melee WP's being able to tank ranged dps now as long they also have something to hit ofc as a Dok you need to be incredibly fast to detaunt a BW if you get targeted after the engage or you will just get bursted but then you still have the mdps to care about beating the hell out of you and then your either dead or you manage to crawl to your back lines and try to place some hots insted.

At that point all the screaming starts wtf y u no heal me go kill yourself

[peppex91]

Dok can dish out decent damage in dw build, while WP is still laughable as dps; if the change gave them more surv than dok it's quite fair imo.
From what i saw in sc scoreboards at least, there was a huge gap in overral damage, can't talk about melee healing numbers but they seem similar in that aspect.

[Penril]

The problem I see is that and from what I saw in the grace wp thread was that dps DoK is much better than 2h wp becacuse of all the parry DoK gets

It's not the parry. It's the 50% inc heal debuff. Also, dual wield = more procs.

If dual wield Dok gets AoE detaunt for free, they would be able to slot:

- Curse of Khaine (50% heal debuff tactic)
- Murderous Intent (10% crit and parry)
- Khaine's Blessing (AA haste)
- Divine Fury

Making DPS Dok really strong. Most probably wont even bother going for Empowered Transfer, so as you can see this change would do nothing for Melee Healing Dok.

However, i think WPs should not get their AoE detaunt for free as well (when using 2H). Other changes should be made in order to buff both Dok/WP melee heal. For example:

- Increase the base values of Sigmar's radiance and Transfer Essence.
- Change Empowered Transfer/Grace of Sigmar to something like "Mitigation no longer affects the melee heal". For example: Transfer Essence hits target for 100 (200 mitigated). His heal is *base value* + 75% of 300 (mitigation is not considered).
- Maybe move their AoE detaunts to their Melee healing trees.

[TenTonHammer]

Nah Az I think it's best if you test dps DoK for your self along with melee sh and 2h Bg


Now for the topic at hand dps wps and doks suffer from the same issues no gap closer so difficulty in getting into melee range etc etc but in that range where they are effective between dw, murderous intent and parry renown DoK is more survivable

So the way I see it is like this: wp detaunts targets to survive getting into melee range where are DoK is better at surviving once it gets into melee range

Furthermore due to faster AA from dw DoK has an easier time procing covenants and stuff along with as haste and hdbuff

[Ade]

Personally I would not agree with giving this tactic for free to melee DoK. I think thats it's melee healing ability is great and very underrated by most who don't even play the class. Sacrifice is a great tree, and to me its very fun. With DE + rend + TE ( + ET making it heal for a rather nice amount ) you provide great healing to your group, greater healing to the defensive target, and some incredible damage that takes most people by surprise.

What most people think when they see a melee dok is - omg he is dual wielding, why do you play dps?? - MELEE HEALER DAMMIT!

But I have to agree that I would not give it for free, it would make aspects of the class a bit too strong, its already strong with a guard, if you could run it without one in a group and not have the drawback of using a tactic to compensate, I just feel it gets a bit crazy.

[ThePollie]

The problem I see is that and from what I saw in the grace wp thread was that dps DoK is much better than 2h wp becacuse of all the parry DoK gets

It's not the parry. It's the 50% inc heal debuff. Also, dual wield = more procs.

If dual wield Dok gets AoE detaunt for free, they would be able to slot:

- Curse of Khaine (50% heal debuff tactic)
- Murderous Intent (10% crit and parry)
- Khaine's Blessing (AA haste)
- Divine Fury

Making DPS Dok really strong. Most probably wont even bother going for Empowered Transfer, so as you can see this change would do nothing for Melee Healing Dok.

However, i think WPs should not get their AoE detaunt for free as well (when using 2H). Other changes should be made in order to buff both Dok/WP melee heal. For example:

- Increase the base values of Sigmar's radiance and Transfer Essence.
- Change Empowered Transfer/Grace of Sigmar to something like "Mitigation no longer affects the melee heal". For example: Transfer Essence hits target for 100 (200 mitigated). His heal is *base value* + 75% of 300 (mitigation is not considered).
- Maybe move their AoE detaunts to their Melee healing trees.

The heal-debuff is a massive increase in damage potential. Even with Wrath's mediocre damage, the 25% debuff is still a noticeable boost. Negating the mitigation portion of lifetaps sounds both interesting and incredibly dangerous, but I'd like to see it explored further.

Frankly, I'm still on the fence of the AoE detaunt's usefulness. While it's nice, I find it works at its best when I detaunt multiple rDPS that focus me. But even with the detaunt, having three Sorcerers target me means I'm dead. Even at 50% damage, they still can punch half my health off per combo. And the AoE detaunt is easily countered by simple positioning, which a vast majority of scenarios and oRvR environments allow.

[aelic]

The problem I see is that and from what I saw in the grace wp thread was that dps DoK is much better than 2h wp becacuse of all the parry DoK gets

It's not the parry. It's the 50% inc heal debuff. Also, dual wield = more procs.

If dual wield Dok gets AoE detaunt for free, they would be able to slot:

- Curse of Khaine (50% heal debuff tactic)
- Murderous Intent (10% crit and parry)
- Khaine's Blessing (AA haste)
- Divine Fury

Making DPS Dok really strong. Most probably wont even bother going for Empowered Transfer, so as you can see this change would do nothing for Melee Healing Dok.

However, i think WPs should not get their AoE detaunt for free as well (when using 2H). Other changes should be made in order to buff both Dok/WP melee heal. For example:

- Increase the base values of Sigmar's radiance and Transfer Essence.
- Change Empowered Transfer/Grace of Sigmar to something like "Mitigation no longer affects the melee heal". For example: Transfer Essence hits target for 100 (200 mitigated). His heal is *base value* + 75% of 300 (mitigation is not considered).
- Maybe move their AoE detaunts to their Melee healing trees.

Keeping in mind that Curse of Khaine is 11 points in to Path of Torture, a Mhealer would most likely nog get it untill rr60
after all you realy need Devour Essence, and then pillage essence to be able to keep your soul essence up for fast any nessecery burst healing, at this point Transfer Essence only acts as a cushioning effect slowing down the groups death it could need a buff of some sort but balancing that ability might be tricky.