[WL vs Mara] NOT a flame thread but honest Discussion.

[Spacecraft]

Seems like any class destro hates gets flamed ie engi last time around and they got there wish. Think we should leave both classes alone for now. Focus on unkillable lol gobos.

[dansari]

Spoiler:

WL's having to choose would be great . I am still in favor of the pet taking more damage the further it gets from the Lion. Pet management while difficult yields amazing returns if they do it properly.

Cool we'll just do the same for squigs that keep you targeted throughout a siege and continue to sick a horned squig on you in hopes of being a nuisance.

I really don't think anyone would complain/be upset at ANY WL nerf in regards to a similar nerf to their class as long as WL gets some type of nerf/rework lol. But I haven't been on Order in a while, really since T3 and I remember SH's being pretty dang tough at times, but lets be honest. For every 1 SH, there are 4-5 WL's sooooo - something obviously isn't right lol.

Haha I hear you; I just wanted to call attention to the fact that while someone on destro might feel helpless when they 1v1 a WL and the WL uses their pet as a solo threat, the same happens with SHs. I don't think an increase in damage when the pet is farther away from you is possible server side or a solution.

And again, there's lots of WLs because there's lots of shammies. If you want to make WLs spec into pounce OR fetch, for example, you might cause an imbalance where nothing can kill a competent shammy. If you get rid of the armor debuff you might make the strongest order mdps the weakest, etc. which can have ripple effects through group setups (and it's been said before but worth saying again - 2 Mara groups are highly viable. 2 WL groups are not)

[TenTonHammer]

I feel one very important thing need to be reminded:

In a case of Mara/WL nerf enemy RDPS/healers will become stronger (shamans rejoice)

At what level of play?

solo? duo? Pugging?

Melee comps can still roll over RDPS and if they cant and the whole counter to RDPS relies on 1 class for each respective side shows a fundamental problem to the game

But thats not the case as both sides, (order especially) have more than enough tools to deal outside of WL with shammys

[kryss]

We got unkillable green midgets kiting full noobgroups and people think about getting mdps nerfed. Oh the irony

[Aurandilaz]

Btw, are there any statistics regarding which mdps classes are most/least played?

[Arbich]

I feel one very important thing need to be reminded:

In a case of Mara/WL nerf enemy RDPS/healers will become stronger (shamans rejoice)
In a case of non-Mara/WL boost enemy RDPS/healers will become weaker

Which one do you prefer?

Why only rdps and healers? This statement makes no sense, sry.
Depending on the nerfs, a nerf of a certain class could be a relative buff to other, less used, classes.

[Daknallbomb]

Hmm If you Just can kill shammy with pounce and fetch.... How the hell destru kill ams?

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Take away or truncate the effectiveness of a marauders ability to debuff wounds/armor/heals/AP drain and supply steady non-bursty-DPS and you've killed the class and reduced it's capabilities for the sake of...? Any 2k+ crits a marauder pulls off is against a low leveled, poorly geared, non-potted, un-buffed, fully debuffed, unguarded, rez sicknessed, cloth armored target without situational and/or spatial awareness. The hardest hits a marauder will do in a 6v6 against a competently geared and cognitive player will be <1300 under the best circumstances, with guillotine on a 10 second cooldown, requiring the target to be <50% HP.

The class is performing to the standard at which Melee classes should be held to; in that you should be worried, yes, that you're a cloth armored player with the ability to do your job without being touched, but now that there's someone hitting you in the face with an axe/sword/hammer/knife you should expect to die unless you do something about it, ie detaunt/snare/root/punt/stagger/healyourself/flee/selfpunt/hit back/disarm/moraleAbsorb/crash client or Accept your fate!TM.

As for WLs, I can't comment as I haven't played since their inability to lol100%puntimmunity was fixed, but the class felt difficult to fight against if you were either solo (which will never be balanced around) or against a very solid premade that focus healed the pet as fast as you could focus DPS it yourself. WLs are where they should be, save the fact that the pets (but but but SH pets are glitched too a bloo bloo :'( ) ignore los/lolZ-axis/lolwallhack.

[th3gatekeeper]

I feel one very important thing need to be reminded:

In a case of Mara/WL nerf enemy RDPS/healers will become stronger (shamans rejoice)

At what level of play?

solo? duo? Pugging?

Melee comps can still roll over RDPS and if they cant and the whole counter to RDPS relies on 1 class for each respective side shows a fundamental problem to the game

But thats not the case as both sides, (order especially) have more than enough tools to deal outside of WL with shammys

This.

If "balance" revolves around 1 class.. that's a problem.

Also just because WL and mara get a small nerf doesn't mean they still can't wipe the floor with Shaman or squig... I mean.... the tactic gives them What? 25% or 30% run speed? Yet WL and mara have fetch/pull and charge that gives 50%? And the WL pounce....I don't see why WL needs ALLLL the stuff they have just to counter a shaman... that smells like an excuse to not have WL nerfed...

[gandresch]

WLs dont need a nerf. All complaints about WLs made in this topic is based on a 1v1 fight. In a 6v6 or 12v12 you can easy counter the WL.

@th3gatekeeper i find it good if people want to change things here but please first you need to learn the difference between inc or outgoing heal debuffs and dont wonder why most WL dont take it.