[Black Guard]2H Disparity between IB?

[Gobtar]

The only tank with detaunt immunity, a 5 secs kd, superpunt and so on, is now a glorified CC/guard bot.

Come the **** on, get a grip people.

you chastise me for saying BG becomes a CC bot, then go off saying that two thirds of the BGs major ability is CC. Irony?

Yes the BG has detaunt immunity, unless you are pure DPS, most healers wont need to detaunt you anyway...they will save their detaunt for the mara. If you are pure DPS and are a threat you are just as squishy as other DPS and will get blown up. Also keep in mind BOs used to have the same tactic, but lost it when people say how strong they could be.

[Dreadspectre]

Yes blackguard has less synergy with the mara because of redundancy. BG do have some synergy with a choppa, and WE. As soon as you throw a mara into the mix, you are basically a glorified CC/guard bot.

The major problem I find with what the BG debuffs is that the mechanic is more penalizing you rather than rewarding you.

You are being straight up ridiculous.

One thing is pointing out the flaws and another is this patethic exageration that is going on here about the BG.

The only tank with detaunt immunity, a 5 secs kd, superpunt and so on, is now a glorified CC/guard bot.

Come the **** on, get a grip people.

I think this was in relation more to the 2H BG vs SNB BG performance.

[bloodi]

you chastise me for saying BG becomes a CC bot, then go off saying that two thirds of the BGs major ability is CC. Irony?

No, i chastise you for using "glorified" when no other tank has access to those tools, do i need to link you the definition of glorified?

Yes the BG has detaunt immunity, unless you are pure DPS, most healers wont need to detaunt you anyway...they will save their detaunt for the mara. If you are pure DPS and are a threat you are just as squishy as other DPS and will get blown up. Also keep in mind BOs used to have the same tactic, but lost it when people say how strong they could be.

And choking fury and mind killer, letting you make a healer useless without even having to kill them but lets not mention that because this is the "lets find ways to make us appear worse than we are" weekly thread.

Get a **** grip.

[incredible]

You are being straight up ridiculous.

One thing is pointing out the flaws and another is this patethic exageration that is going on here about the BG.

The only tank with detaunt immunity, a 5 secs kd, superpunt and so on, is now a glorified CC/guard bot.

Come the **** on, get a grip people.

Absolutely unnecessary and rude color commentary. You can and should make a point without disparaging someone.

What's worse, your attempt to discredit the OP's point actually only bolstered it by outlining cc abilities that are in agreement with his point (that the BG is a glorified cc bot).

[bloodi]

What's worse, your attempt to discredit the OP's point actually only bolstered it by outlining cc abilities that are in agreement with his point (that the BG is a glorified cc bot).

Glorified:
1.-(of something or someone ordinary or unexceptional) represented as or appearing more elevated or special than is the case.
"I did the paperwork and was basically a glorified secretary"

How is the only tank with a superpunt, detaunt immunity, choking fury and 5secs kd a glorified cc bot?

How the hell is pointing out exclusive tools no other tank has agreeing with his point when he claims the BG brings nothing to the table?

You should not use all those grown up man words if you dont know what the **** you are talking about mate.

[GodlessCrom]

Well, isn't that kind of...what tanks do? They guard and CC and assist the melee train. So saying such and such class is a guard/cc bot is basically saying such and such class is a tank. Not to mention, actually applying CC and guard switching and debuffs do actually involve some amount of skill, so it's not exactly like you're just sitting there afk after you apply guard and punt someone off a cliff.

Not saying BG doesn't need changes, though.

[TenTonHammer]

And choking fury and mind killer, letting you make a healer useless without even having to kill them but lets not mention that because this is the "lets find ways to make us appear worse than we are" weekly thread.

Get a **** grip.

Wrong the only healer you would ever "render useless" is rp however a good rp will have no problem out kiting you and you need to stay on an rp to keep up soul killer

the effectiveness of CF by its self falls off late game due to all the + ap potions, +ap gear and potions that inc ap regen rate
it needs to be paired with draining swipes

even then wp can just easily gclense you stuff

KD at 5s needs block and full resource it is not reliable to have that full duration KD when you need it even with guard, thats why its compensated with 5s

[Gobtar]

No, i chastise you for using "glorified" when no other tank has access to those tools, do i need to link you the definition of glorified?

And choking fury and mind killer, letting you make a healer useless without even having to kill them but lets not mention that because this is the "lets find ways to make us appear worse than we are" weekly thread.

Get a **** grip.

I talked about the Soul killer trap earlier on. To make full use of these abilities a BG has to overextend leave guard range, to apply them to the healer line. If he is just waiting for the melee train to get to the healers to use those abilities Mind Killer will still be useful (though if the 2nd DPS is a choppa or WE it tends to be redundant), but Choking fury takes some time for the healer to fully feel it's effect...I am not saying those abilities aren't good, I have never said that, and in my earlier posts you can see that.

As for CC... yes glorified, relying on block and Resource to pull off a KD makes you the least reliable CCer. If you want to be a reliable CCer you need to spec into the tank tree, float guard to a target that is actually being targeted use the channel, hope for a block just to knock someone down. Handing out a 50 second immunity is also a thing.

the UBER KB is likewise bound to hate, and while less difficult to pull off, is not as 'on demand' as any other punt in the game...initial encounters in RvR or SCs means these two major strengths inaccessble behind a resource wall, I float DP as well just to maximise my hatred. People serious over estimate the BGs ability to be a reliable CCer...

Considering once upon a time the IB just had to press a button to have a 4 sec KD and 20 grudge for a KB is a lot easier to get than 100 hate.

That all being said, you can bet I will be pushing for SM/BO to get a tactic for a single target punt.

[Gobtar]

Well, isn't that kind of...what tanks do? They guard and CC and assist the melee train. So saying such and such class is a guard/cc bot is basically saying such and such class is a tank. Not to mention, actually applying CC and guard switching and debuffs do actually involve some amount of skill, so it's not exactly like you're just sitting there afk after you apply guard and punt someone off a cliff.

Not saying BG doesn't need changes, though.

In order to be a good tank, you need to float guard, snare, use challange, have battlefield awareness, interrupt with taunt. All tanks have these tools. When I say someone is a guard/CC bot, it means they are exclusively using these tools and are not contributing anything else. Tanks are my bread and butter, and I hold any tank I play with to have mastered these core abilities, including myself.

Also Tenton: I appreciate that you can paraphrase my thoughts before I even post

[Dreadspectre]

What's worse, your attempt to discredit the OP's point actually only bolstered it by outlining cc abilities that are in agreement with his point (that the BG is a glorified cc bot).

Glorified:
1.-(of something or someone ordinary or unexceptional) represented as or appearing more elevated or special than is the case.
"I did the paperwork and was basically a glorified secretary"

How is the only tank with a superpunt, detaunt immunity, choking fury and 5secs kd a glorified cc bot?

How the hell is pointing out exclusive tools no other tank has agreeing with his point when he claims the BG brings nothing to the table?

You should not use all those grown up man words if you dont know what the **** you are talking about mate.

Uhhh...if the only point of a BG is to bring a knockdown, punt and an AP spend increaser...isnt' that..a...CC...bot..?