How is WL in games current stage

[bloodi]

Have you made a point yet other than "have this video taken under questionable conditions, devs are ignorant, everyone's out to buff their own class / faction"?

Check his post history, he just goes into every thread to talk about how Order is op.

[Azarael]

These people drive me insane, honestly.

The whole reason all discussions about what to do go through the forum is precisely because I, myself, am mostly ignorant, and I accept that what may look like acceptable changes to me may, in fact, be completely the wrong approach. So, I rely on those more knowledgeable than I to discuss the merits of changes and show me the right future path.

What doesn't help is when people hit these threads with a head full of preconceptions and give me nothing useful to work with, instead attacking the other posters.

[bloodi]

These people drive me insane, honestly.

The whole reason all discussions about what to do go through the forum is precisely because I, myself, am mostly ignorant, and I accept that what may look like acceptable changes to me may, in fact, be completely the wrong approach. So, I rely on those more knowledgeable than I to discuss the merits of changes and show me the right future path.

What doesn't help is when people hit these threads with a head full of preconceptions and give me nothing useful to work with, instead attacking the other posters.

Well, thats the developer conumdrum, you will never have enough time to check it by yourself, so you need to have people you believe in doing it for you, player councils, secret illuminati forums and so on.

Its not a great, comes with a lot of problems but you will never get anything clear from forum wars, people are too invested and would gladly see the game crash and burn rather than the other faction have anything they consider "unfair".

I do not envy you.

[Druin]

God the stupidity of some people.

[Jaycub]

I think the major problems with these types of threads is that some people don't understand how a game should be balanced in the first place. IMO a game should always be balanced at the highest level of play, and around the most important game mode.

It's tricky in this game, because compared to most it is technically casual, tab targeting combat does not allow for individual skill to really shine and it is extremely hard for one player to "carry" or make a major difference. The game is very much a team based game, and based around 6 man groups. Meaning balance should reflect that, and sometimes no matter what you do to a class without making it blatantly OP isn't going to have an effect on 6 man comps. I really think you need to look into things like guard, certain group utility being brought to the table from buffs/debuffs from other classes, and healing in general.

There is also going to be people who say that warhammer isn't a 6v6 game only, but is ORvR focused and should be balanced around larger groups, or even that the game should be balanced at all levels from 1v1 to 24v24 etc... but that would be an impossible task.

It's also a bit funny, or maybe hard to understand for some people because a lot of the hypothetical situation and things we seem to talk about in these threads hardly ever occur in game due to a lack of real competitive avenues. My guild doesn't even have a single slayer in it, and we usually run 3 dps, and we are lucky to get a single tank, poor lemur is usually solo healing us all too. But we still have a good amount of success and it can be very fun. Aside from maybe 2-3 guilds on the entire server I don't see any of these meta milker groups pop up. The atmosphere needed to really get good data on balance is nonexistent, on live and on here.

[Azarael]

That's a good analysis all around.

[turlututuhu]

Iis that some people don't understand how

Yes "people" don't know... they need to be educated and you are the good one.
When you speak about "people" you don't including your self in the term ?

[Azarael]

Iis that some people don't understand how

Yes "people" don't know... they need to be educated and you are the good one.
When you speak about "people" you don't included your self in the term ?

Congratulations on picking seven words out of all that and posting the worst response I've seen all week.

[Jaycub]

Destro players have a tendency to attack the person and not their argument :^)

[bloodi]

Maybe its me spending a lot of time playing fighting games in the last years but the argument of balancing only top level also comes with downsides.

Everything is great on the competitive level, if you check tournament results for a game like USF4 or the standings of Capcom Cup, click on their names and see the characters they use, plenty of variation, no character is repeated more than twice (except maybe eRyu), does that mean the game is thriving?

Not really, new players get absolutely destroyed, if you are casual you will not have a very fun time in Street fighter online and i found myself plenty of times with no one to play without horrible lag due to distance.

Yet last Evo it got 200k+ viewers for the top 8 and i loved it but that doesnt mean it still doesnt have a problem with retention and Capcom also thinks is a problem, check what they are doing for Street Fighter V, they are removing 1 frame links (for the ignorant, combos where the inputs need to be done in the space of 1/60th of a second, the game is balanced around them), removing hard inputs like 720º and making the half circles and so on.

Because yeah, great, our game is balanced, high fives all around, we are the balance masters but that doesnt mean is fun for everyone, that doesnt mean casuals are motivated to continue playing it and that doesnt mean we made a good game.

If the "baddies" think something is a problem enough your game is hemorraging players, you can sit on your throne all day pretending you are Libra, no one will remember you for making a balanced game, you will not get the Oscar to the best balance, all you will get is a dead game.

I am up for high level balance but as someone once said, if we played the best balanced game, we would all play Virtua Fighter.

And that game is dead as ****.