Return of Reckoning

Sundowner wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:30 pm

Foofmonger wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:19 pm

Sundowner wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:07 pm
Firstly, when I say ST potential I mean the best setup of stats/mastery trees/tactics there is (sorry if I did not make that clear earlier).

And again about qualitive analysis. We have other mdps, mara does not exist separately in the game, something should be buffed when it is underperforming in comparison to other classes why it is hard to understand? Here is plan, take mara in both brut/monstro and brut/sava specs, compare ST damage with other mdps (also make qualitive adjustments such as survibility, mobility, etc.) compare results. if both builds are underperforming, there is need for buff, if one is on level of other mdps (medial, of course), then this is viable build in current state of the balance and ST should be played that way. Giving further buffs in this case will only make mara overtuned in comparison to other mdps.

Yes this is hard, time-consuming and tedious task, but balance changes should be done this way, not only theorizing about what it should be. and ST potential does not mean only damage, it means st debuffs too.

Also don't forget that its team-game, so you should compare other classes abilities too. You can't take one hero and make changes disregarding tanks/other mdps/healers which could have abilities which fill in gaps.

To end, I am not antagonizing you or destro side, I believe in balance and if something is underperforming it should be buffed, but arguments should be based on tangible data not assumptions and vision of the several players out of thousands.

Also I never insulted you or called you lazy, just tried to present my arguments. have a nice day

Do you honestly think the arguments I'm making aren't based on comparison to other classes? How hard is that to understand. I literally pointed out to you how the Savagery Marauder is underperforming compared to other classes, and your response was to then flip-flop into further nonsensical points as you backtracked.

I have tested the damage numbers of multiple DPS classes. You havent have you? It's not a hard task, and it's not tedious. I'm telling you the output based on my expertise, and your lack of it.

You are arguing from a point of your own ignorance, and doubling down when being presented with logic. Your arguments have no substance, are off-topic, and show a complete lack of understand of the MDPS classes in this game.

Again, I already explained to you how in relation to many other classes, the Savagery Marauder has significant issues. If you want me to run numbers, I can do that all day long. They will support my overall point, as I've already explained to you by comparing relative debuff values between Mara ST debuffs and a variety of other classses AoE debuffs.

Again, I've had better conversations with my cat.

maybe show us results then? that's all I am asking, but you are busy talking to your cat I think.

Also, this topic is nonsense from the beginning, comparing ST burst of WL and SW to mara is hilarious at best. they are DIFFERENT classes and all classes have their good specs and sub-optimal specs. i.e. WL aoe spec is much weaker than maras (roughly similar damage with much more aoe utility of mara), SWs aoe impact is a joke. Some classes are good at something and some others excel in that, that is how class design is handled in ROR.

Also, if mastery tree description states something it does not mean that it should be the best and over-performing.

keep talking to your cat and continue disregarding on what stage the game is now in development and how balance between classes is handled by the dev team.

There is nothing to argue about, no more replies from me

theoddone wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:43 pm Interesting thread. Some clarification, TB nerf happened in t4 by torq when people were running around with 6-7k wounds.

The deadly clutch change happened in T2 or T3 with the justification that it was never supposed to leech pots and were supposed to match the tactic description. However, the leech healing from lifetaps was removed. Before it could leech all healing, and there is nothing in the tactic description saying it should not leech heal lifetaps. After this lifetap specs have been buffed a lot. So the defensive component of the tactic has been quite nerfed.

Both those changes should be reverted imo.

As for comparing mara to wl and msw. Mara does not have the same mobility or on-demand CC in ST spec. This means that its a lot easier predicting maras actions,
and even easier to shut down by tanks. Snares and CC hurts the mara a lot more compared to wl and msw. It also makes the class less forgiving and worse in pugstomping settings.

Another thing to consider with the mara is stat distribution. The class relies on certain tactics to be functional. That means that a ST mara should not run BF. This leads to having to compensate with gear to get enough str and secondary stat allocation suffer. The asw on the other hand gets more extra stats than imaginable.