Lets talk Trivial Blows

[Chaoself]

Defhammer inc, the age of inmortal healers. to be honest, people should learn to break sorc/bw rotations or pushing back when being focused by mpds. or just start to making groups instead to pug. nerfing the crit damage is not the solution, to work on survival is. dont make the game more casual yet than it was on live, please.

[Bretin]

Defhammer inc, the age of inmortal healers. to be honest, people should learn to break sorc/bw rotations or pushing back when being focused by mpds. or just start to making groups instead to pug. nerfing the crit damage is not the solution, to work on survival is. dont make the game more casual yet than it was on live, please.

and again it's a l2p issue not a real problem :^)

[Tesq]

maybe i've told it before, but i think TB will never see a slot, it cost too much and there are more efficent way at rr 80 to counter a bomb wb. Anyway not on tanks, rr 80 tanks done good and will do still good; maybe TB will get the points of those rdps that have some spare and make them less squigsy (and thus maake his existence a problem).

However for me there are differents source of "problems":

kobs and similar crit buff are something it shouldn't exist in game.

crit should be rare not a common thing, exept the bw/sorc meccanic that revolve around it and the dok/wp absorb tactic .

crit in war have some disegualiance like mdps vs rdps :

mdps 50% crit damage
rdps 100% crit damage

while the rdps do alredy more damage due to magic damage and hit aoe x 9 ppl we can say that the heal group value are alredy balanced around that. So that when it cames to bomb heal aoe + res auras are alredy good enough to keep ppl alive. This is the whole point of not touch auras ....Then here it cames some ppl that start to slot magus engi marauder/wl or we/wh to lower the bomb but to hit healers while they focus healing etc and have more controll

I'm not against crit x se but the things that make it just better like resistence debuff or tactics/skill that increase the chance with the crit happen.

You can say that anyway x2 healer x party can block with sov crit for 10 seconds so this mean :
20/40 secods + moral 4 + etc = lots of def stuff you can bring to counter bomb

So i just agree partially on 6.

i would also push for have the disparity between mdps and rdps on crit damage removed and have all do +50% damage maybe exept magus/engi just to balance their lower crit chance.
It's anyway not a mystery that if you want bomb you take mainly sorc/bw so somethign in that sense can be done.
However as box stated we are in t3 and crit feel more bad that they are in t4. Tank in t4 get a lot more defensivly than how much dps increase their damage.

[noisestorm]

And the heck is Tesq talking about bomb groups? O_O

[Uchoo]

Trivializing the casual crowd is the best way to kill a game.

There needs to be room for both the casual and the tryhard. I would rather see the game more friendly to the less skilled or those who simply don't have the time or patience. The tryhards will always adapt and find a way to succeed.

Of course, the team behind this product may have a different vision.

[noisestorm]

Well what uchoo said was also somewhat taken into my consideration. I dont want the game the be easy peesy and cheap for noobs, but i still have them somewhere in the back of my mind. Therefore i am still waiting for some input from the more casual players and not the forum PvPers i always can read about :>

PS: and as some of you may know, i am not someone who cant adapt or cries about anything. im just genuinely curios on how this game should work out later on without encountering the problems live had back then

[Uchoo]

I agree with Azarael that the classes doing too much burst need to be dealt with separately. I think that Sorc/BW damage output could instead have a dot component so it's not just frontload burst damage (like what Blizzard did to Chaos Bolt), but that's just another idea to go into the pot.

first: he never said that the "burst classes" needs a nerf because they don't do.
second: are you on drugs? bw and sorc are both dot depending classes that's why one of their counterplay is named "cleanse".
third: google what frontloaded burst means before coming up with a non-sense comparison because BW/Sorc are definitely no front loaded burst classes .

I have more of an issue with the front-loaded damage portion of a BW/Sorc than their backload in an organized group.

Also, with the way cleanse works in this game, it's hard to reliably remove what needs to be removed. You can remove one debuff every 5 seconds, 2 between 2 healers. So burying debuffs isn't a hard thing to do, especially with focus firing mages. 2 Bright Wizards/Sorcs working on a single target can almost guarantee success in that instance.

If you look at WoW for example, cleanse removes everything from a target iirc but it has a longer cooldown, forcing tactical play with cleanse but at a high reward, rather than spamming cleanse on cooldown. In addition, healers are the only ones with the tools to deal with it if you don't consider Cleansing Wind or the cloaks from Land of the Dead.

I guess my ideal vision of Warhammer has stronger counterplay options, but not always available.

Anyways, as always, your ego is appreciated by everyone. There's really nothing else as funny as watching your god complex tear you to pieces; here, or in game.

[Landaren]

Should consider reworking guard, considering how vital guard is in the game that would have a much greater impact then making the game 100% melee train again

[Uchoo]

Sorc/Bw damage is high and bursty because it's easy to shut down. Cleanse/Disrupt/Pressure/Pre-Healing.

Sorc/bw damage drops substantially when they are being pressured by a melee train.

You dont even need a full melee train, even sitting a defensive tank who knows how to interrupt spells will counter a lot of the Sorcs/bw burst.

The class is built around burst, if you remove that burst your left with a pointless class.

I disagree, I think that toning down their power just means that they have to reliably work with someone else to get the job done.

Personally, I would rather see them not fold under pressure quite so hard and have a more balanced output.

[peterthepan3]

^ That ideology is what the Magus was purported to conform to: the slightly-tankier and more balanced version of the Sorc.

Sorc/BW are glasscannon casters, and that should not be changed. It's amazingly easy to avoid a BW/Sorc burst rotation with careful cleanse/detaunt/LOS. I'm seriously beginning to think that there is a severe case of L2Pitis among many of these people contributing =P