How is the WL after the patch?

[Foomy44]

Speed Training, Stalker, Leonine Frenzy, Charge, more than enough ways to keep the pet moving fast in combat which is what the person I replied to was attempting to make sound uncommon I believe.

For OP's question, I was hoping this patch would get em balanced and the best one are definitely easier to take down on the classes I could already kill them with, but unfortunately the good ones are still able to burst down my full dominator 0% chance to be crit dps shammy during the 3second knockdown even without FO so looks like I'll be sticking with Chosen till something changes.

You could always bring your DPS Shaman to a group, with good heals and tanks to help support you - y'know, considering this isn't a 1v1 game and all. Or you could do what you did.

Yes I know, 1v1 doesn't count even thou they happen all the time, pug SCs don't count either, just always move in a WB while less than 30ft away from your perma pocket guard and WLs are fine, my bad.

[gandresch]

Does the WL KD have a 3 second duration again? Since Foomy have mentioned it here. Or is it still 2 seconds.

[gandresch]

Okay Thanks. Seems fair now. I hope i have time to play soon again.

[Tesq]

The problem with pet is due player skill,

-there are way to ignore immunity on pet; i belive is either when is on follow or called back

- there are way to make manually the pull/ kd undefeatable by send the pet onto a target behind your true target then swap target and call pull/kd so that targer will move from behind you
and will hit you behind where you cant parry

-there is no way to stop the pull exept kill the pet, kill is a solution to everything, but taunt a mara is easier.

-the speed tactic for the pet is retarded with out a pathway for the pets in general.

The best counter is kill the pet and the safe way is have a rdps to do it out of melee pull/kd range.

It is more an anti-melee class than anti range class. Especially now that a imo right guard meccanic was intriduced for the pet the wl and pet need to be pack togheter and the wl survability should be adjusted even.more, it is still to easy send in/out impunity the pet

All these things get even more easier or powerfull.whrn you have a blob/zerg covering you.

Also the max distance a pet can chase you is retarded for both realms. It should be reduced.

[CountTalabecland]

To the OP, WL is the literal god of death and to the god of death we say "not today!"

In all seriousness as Torq described above the recent changes are reasonable (as in nothing has been made "broken" or what not) in order to create viable versatile specs other than axeman/hunter and the class is fine at its role (ST damage) and has the weaknesses you might expect of an mdps, especially in large scale.

Like all instances, if you like the look of the class and want to play it then do so. Ignore all the theory crafting meta thumping trolls.

[Koha]

...
Why do you think I made it so they took less splash damage? So I could adjust individual survivability down and NOT reduce overall longevity, its never been easier to kill a WL pet so long as you TARGET it which is why I have been telling people to do it but there is a massive wall of misinformation from some people and some people think trying to burst down a tank spec guardian is a good idea, it isnt. The only pet which would even be approaching the older levels of survivability are high axeman WLs using trained to threaten.
...

Taking away splash damage sounds indeed as the best way to balance survivability of pets (and not increasing its survivability further).

For the time to kill and dps of the pet, I think the real issue is not the pet DPS, the issue is that a Tank spec Guardian is having a pet doing the damage it used to do with a dps spec (might be a bit less if you say so) = butter and butter money.

Can any other class do that ? invest massively in defensive stats and increase the damage of its pet ?

Tank spec Guardian should mean at least a glass canon pet, which implies :
- Lion master should be the front line, preparing and softening the target <> sending the pet for fetch in a melee train, or hiding and waiting for the pet to do the job
- Lion master should guard his pet (new ability is going that way, which sounds good)
- Lion's pet should have a time to kill of 3 sec maximum for any glass canon dps = high risk = high reward (not ''guarded'') and should not have a resolute-defense-like when no other class can have it.
- Lion's pet should not run faster than players except with charge, it's the master's job now = pounce snare etc...

[Koha]

its just a hilarious class just send the pet and let it do its work and see them 600-1k crits iam loving it so far its almost like i never even have to use my own abilities cuz the target is ded before i can get something of thats just the sad part but anyhow you gonna love it

You cant just "send the pet", the further it is away from you, the less damage it does and one day people will get a clue and punch the pet in the face

You can send the pet and stay at close but safe distance, waiting for the stomp... stun, snare on pet... easy kite

[Bozzax]

I’d like to see how long it really takes a team to kill a ’guarded’ focus healed/clnsd pet. Pondering since my 31 rp was quite able to prevent it even bf guard change (well not 6man focus tbh but still focus). Especially since it is passed arround as a general counter.

We talk about a 800str, 400ws, 900+ wounds wl with ensnare, fetch disable, pet perma snare and who knows how ro remote the pet. (Fun fact is that I saw 1,4K pet AA)

So how much (down)time, CDs do you trade to get 15s iirc of wl downtime.

[Koha]

I’d like to see how long it really takes a team to kill a ’guarded’ focus healed/clnsd pet. Pondering since my 31 rp was quite able to prevent it even bf guard change (well not 6man focus tbh but still focus). Especially since it is passed arround as a general counter.

We talk about a 800str, 400ws, 900+ wounds wl with ensnare, fetch disable, pet perma snare and who knows how ro remote the pet. (Fun fact is that I saw 1,4K pet AA)

So how much (down)time, CDs do you trade to get 15s iirc of wl downtime.

Pet should be the tank and utility assistant, master should be a melee dps... it should mean a guarded and healed glass canon or a tanky fluffy damage dealer like any other class.

[alusnova]

...
Why do you think I made it so they took less splash damage? So I could adjust individual survivability down and NOT reduce overall longevity, its never been easier to kill a WL pet so long as you TARGET it which is why I have been telling people to do it but there is a massive wall of misinformation from some people and some people think trying to burst down a tank spec guardian is a good idea, it isnt. The only pet which would even be approaching the older levels of survivability are high axeman WLs using trained to threaten.
...

Taking away splash damage sounds indeed as the best way to balance survivability of pets (and not increasing its survivability further).

For the time to kill and dps of the pet, I think the real issue is not the pet DPS, the issue is that a Tank spec Guardian is having a pet doing the damage it used to do with a dps spec (might be a bit less if you say so) = butter and butter money.

Can any other class do that ? invest massively in defensive stats and increase the damage of its pet ?

Tank spec Guardian should mean at least a glass canon pet, which implies :
- Lion master should be the front line, preparing and softening the target <> sending the pet for fetch in a melee train, or hiding and waiting for the pet to do the job
- Lion master should guard his pet (new ability is going that way, which sounds good)
- Lion's pet should have a time to kill of 3 sec maximum for any glass canon dps = high risk = high reward (not ''guarded'') and should not have a resolute-defense-like when no other class can have it.
- Lion's pet should not run faster than players except with charge, it's the master's job now = pounce snare etc...

Wrong the Guardian Tree focuses on the WL assisting the pet, therefore the pet should be stronger than in other trees, the WL own dps won't be as high because they should be stacking wounds/toughness, when you kill the pet the Guardian WL is done for as they wont have crit %, CC, parry, etc.

Again what you need to understand is that they have made the class weaker than before (Torque already confirmed this in this thread) and recently more balanced with the Guardian Tree changes this literally takes Force Opportunity out of their Guardian builds reducing their dps significantly . The other 2 trees Axe/Hunt are where the pet is relatively weak but the WL dps is way higher and can have a perma 50% heal debuff .