Return of Reckoning

Valnak wrote:He was also pointing out guard range. It's not 100 feet.

Yeah I know guard range lol. Its super short. But you get a slayer you are guarding and its not uncommon to get healers (if it werer 100 feet) within 100 feet of you healing the front line. That was my theory anyways, debunked by the TT of the 30 feet that the aura impacts.


BTW, why did the wounds debuff get moved to 40? Wasnt it a lvl 28 ability on live if I recall? Or am I going crazy...

th3gatekeeper wrote:

Valnak wrote:He was also pointing out guard range. It's not 100 feet.

BTW, why did the wounds debuff get moved to 40? Wasnt it a lvl 28 ability on live if I recall? Or am I going crazy...

Fairly sure it was always 40, I may be mistaken though.

Purely? It's an aoe curse so it will pretty much just sit there for the full duration would be my guess. Honestly its the best wounds de buff order have if you ask me but I still wouldn't take it over a shield for the crit.

So something that has been bothering me for a little while... Maybe I am the only one.

Ive been playing other classes, like AM, and have friends playing classes like WP and something the Knight doesnt REALLY have is a way to make themselves a more viable DPS threat.

Even going full 5/5 Duelist, PVP weapon and stacking STR up the ying as well as Parry for runefang + M2 buff (one that adds 192 STR + Wounds + toughness) I STILL dont hit very hard going FULL out DPS setup.

Even adding Focsued Offense (which seems like it would be the ideal way to make this class deal more damage) Ill see MAX crits on squishy targets for ~800 to 900? With the normal being closer to 600 or 700.

I am taunting (30% more damage) as well as 5/5 procs as well as guard for the Parry (runefang) which is putting me around 850 STR+ Adding M2 puts me over 1k STR and even with Focused offense on, I really am not a damage threat at all.


So my question is this: Other classes have feats that seem to increase damage MORE than the damage increase we get from Focused Offense. Slotting F.O. we give up probably toughness so we lose 33% armor + ~12o toughness for just 15% more damage? Seems like this should be more like 30% more damage, not 15%.... Would that be too much or seem fair?

I go on my lvl 18 AM who can put out more damage (yes DPS spec atm for leveling) than my 2h Knight can.... Just seems like we are missing options and the "dps" option isnt really there... Its kinda like "you wanna be a tank or a tank who still hits like a wet noodle?"

Looking further at some differences between Chosen and Knight... Am I missing something or do Knights just get the shaft?

Chosen get their Blast wave @ lvl 18 (wounds debuff) and we get ours @ lvl 40? I guess my above post would be more "moot" if we had a fatty wounds debuff to slap on targets as it would make our damage more meaningful.....

Chosen get Discordant Turbulance which reduces all incoming healing, Knights only reduces OUTGOING healing. Arguably worse...

Chosen get Crippling Strikes + Oppressive Blows combined with some nice AoE abilities (like Blast Wave and Rending Blade) while we get 10% more crit for everyone in the party via encouraged aim.... I can see how 10% for party > 15% for self but then comparing Efficient Swings (35% less cost) versus Crippling Strikes... Seems Knights get the shaft there...

Chosen get Suppression (25% parry chance for 15 seconds) while we get Shield Rush which gives 10% block for 10 seconds.....

Several of their abilities deal Spirit Damage and ALSO cannot be defended against, while Knights deal regular damage and our best ability bypasses 25% armor.... Which makes it STILL arguably hit less than if it were pure spirit damage.

I wont even get into "Destined for Victory" and how OP that will be....

I do see Oppression is probably worse than Vigilance but besides that, it just seems the Chosen has SUCH A leg up on the Knight...

What am I missing here? Why hasnt this been looked at a little deeper?

th3gatekeeper wrote:Looking further at some differences between Chosen and Knight... Am I missing something or do Knights just get the shaft?

Chosen get their Blast wave @ lvl 18 (wounds debuff) and we get ours @ lvl 40? I guess my above post would be more "moot" if we had a fatty wounds debuff to slap on targets as it would make our damage more meaningful.....

Chosen get Discordant Turbulance which reduces all incoming healing, Knights only reduces OUTGOING healing. Arguably worse...

Chosen get Crippling Strikes + Oppressive Blows combined with some nice AoE abilities (like Blast Wave and Rending Blade) while we get 10% more crit for everyone in the party via encouraged aim.... I can see how 10% for party > 15% for self but then comparing Efficient Swings (35% less cost) versus Crippling Strikes... Seems Knights get the shaft there...

Chosen get Suppression (25% parry chance for 15 seconds) while we get Shield Rush which gives 10% block for 10 seconds.....

Several of their abilities deal Spirit Damage and ALSO cannot be defended against, while Knights deal regular damage and our best ability bypasses 25% armor.... Which makes it STILL arguably hit less than if it were pure spirit damage.

I wont even get into "Destined for Victory" and how OP that will be....

I do see Oppression is probably worse than Vigilance but besides that, it just seems the Chosen has SUCH A leg up on the Knight...

What am I missing here? Why hasnt this been looked at a little deeper?

Because knight is the strongest tank in game to say that any other tank is better is incorrect.

Toldavf wrote:

th3gatekeeper wrote:Looking further at some differences between Chosen and Knight... Am I missing something or do Knights just get the shaft?

Chosen get their Blast wave @ lvl 18 (wounds debuff) and we get ours @ lvl 40? I guess my above post would be more "moot" if we had a fatty wounds debuff to slap on targets as it would make our damage more meaningful.....

Chosen get Discordant Turbulance which reduces all incoming healing, Knights only reduces OUTGOING healing. Arguably worse...

Chosen get Crippling Strikes + Oppressive Blows combined with some nice AoE abilities (like Blast Wave and Rending Blade) while we get 10% more crit for everyone in the party via encouraged aim.... I can see how 10% for party > 15% for self but then comparing Efficient Swings (35% less cost) versus Crippling Strikes... Seems Knights get the shaft there...

Chosen get Suppression (25% parry chance for 15 seconds) while we get Shield Rush which gives 10% block for 10 seconds.....

Several of their abilities deal Spirit Damage and ALSO cannot be defended against, while Knights deal regular damage and our best ability bypasses 25% armor.... Which makes it STILL arguably hit less than if it were pure spirit damage.

I wont even get into "Destined for Victory" and how OP that will be....

I do see Oppression is probably worse than Vigilance but besides that, it just seems the Chosen has SUCH A leg up on the Knight...

What am I missing here? Why hasnt this been looked at a little deeper?

Because knight is the strongest tank in game to say that any other tank is better is incorrect.

Why? Because Vigilance? I would probably rather have Destined for Victory...

We do get Runefang which adds alot of STR + WS so there is that to boost our damage, but in reality @ 650+ STR adding 192 STR is about a 13% damage boost and I would be curious how much of a damage boost it is to have things deal spirit damage > regular damage.

th3gatekeeper wrote:

Toldavf wrote:

th3gatekeeper wrote:Looking further at some differences between Chosen and Knight... Am I missing something or do Knights just get the shaft?

Chosen get their Blast wave @ lvl 18 (wounds debuff) and we get ours @ lvl 40? I guess my above post would be more "moot" if we had a fatty wounds debuff to slap on targets as it would make our damage more meaningful.....

Chosen get Discordant Turbulance which reduces all incoming healing, Knights only reduces OUTGOING healing. Arguably worse...

Chosen get Crippling Strikes + Oppressive Blows combined with some nice AoE abilities (like Blast Wave and Rending Blade) while we get 10% more crit for everyone in the party via encouraged aim.... I can see how 10% for party > 15% for self but then comparing Efficient Swings (35% less cost) versus Crippling Strikes... Seems Knights get the shaft there...

Chosen get Suppression (25% parry chance for 15 seconds) while we get Shield Rush which gives 10% block for 10 seconds.....

Several of their abilities deal Spirit Damage and ALSO cannot be defended against, while Knights deal regular damage and our best ability bypasses 25% armor.... Which makes it STILL arguably hit less than if it were pure spirit damage.

I wont even get into "Destined for Victory" and how OP that will be....

I do see Oppression is probably worse than Vigilance but besides that, it just seems the Chosen has SUCH A leg up on the Knight...

What am I missing here? Why hasnt this been looked at a little deeper?

Because knight is the strongest tank in game to say that any other tank is better is incorrect.

Why? Because Vigilance? I would probably rather have Destined for Victory...

We do get Runefang which adds alot of STR + WS so there is that to boost our damage, but in reality @ 650+ STR adding 192 STR is about a 13% damage boost and I would be curious how much of a damage boost it is to have things deal spirit damage > regular damage.

The reason kotbs can't dps as well as a dps is because they are a tank. My WH can't heal, my RP can't guard, it's pretty simple to understand.

Oh you poor dear you don't realize how bullshit op le (imba)balanced banana knight

If it was anyone else I'd say they were trolling but I think you a new player so let me break it down for you

First of Encourage Aim, Dirty tricks and focused mending
20% critical hit chance and 15% increased group healing means that a kotbs can slap a guard and go semi afk and still be more effective and powerful than any other tank in the game in a group

And that's what kotbs is
The single best group utility tank in the game

Now let's look at what you said
Discordant turbulence is god awful it's a 25% inc hd means it worse than every 50% inc hd that destro has which is why it is never specd

Compare this to kotbs 25% outgoing heal debuff which stacks with the 50% inc hd to reduce the healing that a healer can cast on them selves by 75%

Now as I said earlier dirty tricks + encouraged aim means that everyone in your party has a 20% chance to critically hit this INCLUDES a 10% chance to crit heal on your healers as well


Next let's talk about shield rush vs supression

Between renown and SR a kotbs can have 20% block rate now kotbs is a block based tank and it's best tactics like DT proc off block

Now compare that to chosen who is a parry based tank but whose best abilites : mixed defenses and destined for victory rely on block

Kotbs isn't meant to deal damage because you are the best defensive TANK in the game as well and if you really want to deal damage runefang + emperors champion letting a kotbs who went full deftard defensive soft cap str and all that for 30s



Yeah destined for victory is good, it's one of the best tactics in the game but I can say with a fair degree of confidence that most chosens would easily trade it for near 100% uptime crit and grp heal

And that not even mentioning a triple target snare tha cannot be clense by doks not the absurdly broken tactic that destroy confidence that completely shuts down shamans

th3gatekeeper wrote:Looking further at some differences between Chosen and Knight... Am I missing something or do Knights just get the shaft?

I play both. I main'd Knight on Live, I only really want to play Chosen on RoR.

In general Chosen is better for damage while Knight is ridiculously overpowered for utility/group utility.

I have nitpicked your post in this spoiler tag and tried to answer everything: