Why all the PvE hate?

[Azarael]

It seems I've been painted as anti-PvE. I don't have a problem with PvE - but it's much harder for us to fix than PvP, and focusing work on aspects of the game which are relevant to both PvP and PvE (combat fundamentals, party window, etc) is more productive.

[frenchfrank]

I understand this, hence why I left WAR installed for almost 2 months despite never playing it and was checking on this forum from time to time to see the progress, because at some point down the line, I expected PvE to come back once the RvR stuff was sorted, even if it took many months. I was waiting to give the "all clear" signal and bring my friends into the game.

However this isn't the case, PvE is NEVER going to be in this game full stop. This isn't PvE being lower as a priority, this is PVE not being on the priority list full stop.

Tbh I wish Devs would clarify this on main page and make it clear PvE is never going to happen. It would save people like me some bother and we would know to ignore this, as it stands there's this false impression (it's what I got at least) that this is an attempt to get Warhammer Online in its ENTIRETY working again... When really it isn't, the devs don't want to include it and believe it is superfluous, and from what I've seen the majority of this forum views PvE with contempt and scorn. It's not a problem, free world and all that, but this was just disappointing if you come here expecting a full emulation.

It seems I've been painted as anti-PvE. I don't have a problem with PvE - but it's much harder for us to fix than PvP, and focusing work on aspects of the game which are relevant to both PvP and PvE (combat fundamentals, party window, etc) is more productive.

I understand the mechanical reasons, which is why I was originally content with waiting for however long it takes.
Giving good technical reasons for why something is hard to implement doesn't make you seem anti pve, it's more statements like this:

" Sparing to much ressources on the always unlimited demanding and consuming content pve crowd killed warhammer. IMHO.

This is actually true, and this fact needs to be faced.

In PvP, the players ARE the content, therefore if an acceptable standard of depth exists in the gameplay, the game can last a very long time. MMOs unfortunately tend to fail this by design when compared with eSport games, but I'm not going to get into that now.

In PvE, the experience is the content, and unfortunately, that experience is the same every time around (even more so in Warhammer.) "

I respectfully disagree with both the original statement as well as your conclusion that PvE content needs to be continually churned out. Maybe if this was a paid MMO, but this isn't. I've already explained a good majority of my friends come from WoW and the mmo private servers they drag me on to is things like original WoW servers which also have fixed content but are doing just fine because people enjoy questing and the PvE aspect.
Going back to my friends, if I bring them into WAR they would want quests to flesh out the story and introduce them into the world. No quests, no story, no interest, it's as simple as that. PvP without the context and meat around it would just be too dry for their tastes.

[Azarael]

When really it isn't, the devs don't want to include it and believe it is superfluous

On the one day I choose to remove "Posts represent my own opinion unless otherwise stated"...

Can you name another developer, besides me, who you believe subscribes to this mindset? Because me posting an opinion is not a free pass for you to decide that the development team, as a whole, don't like PvE and don't intend to replicate it.

It's about priorities. You don't know anything at all about our decisions and goals, so please, stop acting as if you do. I happen to agree that an MMO without PvE is just a poor man's MOBA.

[frenchfrank]

I'm a bit confused, it's the vibe I've gotten when browsing the forum so am now rolling with it.
As for other devs, I don't make it a habit to write down names. I'll have forgotten your own name once this conversation is done.

Is PvE on the plans or not then? You've already given me a good technical reason that PvE is pretty much impossible, coupled with the forums overwhelming distaste for PvE, you can see why I've come to the conclusion I've come to.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not acting like I'm psychic and read your minds, I'm just basing of what I've read which has been pretty much universal when it comes to the PvE: it's technically unfeasible or so difficult to do that it won't be bothered with and most people don't even want it or view it as pointless.

[Azarael]

It's not impossible. We have a database team who work on it behind the scenes for future tiers, with Dana as the lead.

The main problem with PvE right now is that public quests don't work and certain elements of aggro handling (heals, mainly) are missing. I guess restoring the quest text also presents a problem, though I'm not too sure about that.

[frenchfrank]

Well that gives me hope then.

So will keep monitoring the progress of this game in hopes of a PvE return one day.

[navis]

Too bad that Warhammer actually didn't really get designed as a PvP game, they spent a freakin lot of time making those 100's of PQ's all over the game... They are cool and I don't think I even did all of them myself... Definitely didn't do many of the Destro ones.

On top of what many would call a crappy design some new things were created because of that, including PvP and RvR. There would be far less areas to explore...

I think, the real mis-design of it is the way they implemented PvE, mainly the PQ's.
They were supposed to be what players would be doing the majority of the time but they don't nearly have any incentive to replay them except for a chance (at what later came, secondary gear slots) to win unique appearance items, cool!

Most people frown too much on the PvE stuff, but most of it is really very good but it's known not to be super "deep" intellectually and the players interactions to the virtual Warhammer world typically are limited to - turn the lever - kill the bats - collect the item, trivial quests. That's ok, we can handle it. We know that PvP is really where it's at for new challenges.

ToK unlocking overview
- Beastiary (including PvP kills, well over 10k deathblows for every class) (100's of hours spent)
- Achievements (100's of hours spent) fun!
- WAR Story unlocking PQ's (hundreds of hours spent)
- Special Ring and Jewelry sets (about a dozen hours spent)
- History and Lore (dozens of hours spent)
- Noteworthy Persons
- Lairs - all good!! there are some nice ones too!
- Armory - unlock "wards" awesome in a PvE way!

It's well known that this is ALL optional content, with the exception of the 'Wards' from the Armory.

PvE PQ's all have extremely bad Loot tables with exception of some nice Appearance items
Grinding inf is not worth it, by far, but perhaps if you enjoy being cruel to yourself then go to it!

PvE stuff I think should be implemented in RoR - In order of importance

Armory
Beastiary
Kill Quests
Noteworthy Persons
History and Lore
WAR story (as PQ come online hopefulyl)
Achievements - varied structure and content makes this the most frilly component here

Short comings of PvE!!!

WAR Story - It's kind of too bad that they stopped the entries at the end of T4 as the games PvE continued further than these levels. No or very little WAR story is included for the Fortress, City Dungeons, Warlord and King encounters... Seeing as how these were all originally PvE, I think those could be brought back if that was possible.

PQ loot is incredibly poorly level gear, just about always. I think they did this intentionally to make it hard for others to quickly get in on a PQ as to then acquire good gear.. I think this philosophy is incorrect and they should encourage people to "farm" PQ for access to decent gear.

Choosing of Loot from Quests.. Always lame options, choose one or choose the other.. Both options are lame, nothing new here.

Interactions with the world are intentionally "dumb".. There is not much in the order of extensive interactions with the exception of some of the hard Lairs and a few other 'hard' ToK unlocks which require several steps which are not always easy to determine...

[Coryphaus]

if the devs had no interest in pve they wouldn't have tried to fix all the quest in t1

[magter3001]

I like PvE as well but I know my priorities as well. I would LOVE to have tradeskills back but I would rather have party frames and T2 waaaaay before tradeskills because it matters more to me and many people who play the game. Sure there are a lot who love PvE as well but frankly put, there are other games for that. There is not a single game out there, not even DAoC that is like WAR.

Hopefully down the line the devs will find time for PvE, but the priority should always be RvR first and PvE second. That's just my opinion so no one get frisky with me here!

[drmordread]

Shocking my self for saying this;

There is nothing wrong with PvE. The PvP is the main goal, and this should be fixed first yes. After that if the devs want to spend more time fix the PvE. It is a free game and I for one will be thankfull for the content the devs give us.

I would like to see the city dungeons fixed and LoTD (ToVL pq and Lair 1st:).

But as far as getting rid of PvE, you can not.
FIRST OFF: it would kill the game economics. Where are you going to get the items needed to make armor pots? Or to make Talismans? PvE is the only place.
So unless you want to play without those, then you need PvE