Return of Reckoning

hogun wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:20 pm

Telen wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:17 pm

Its seems a lifetime ago and Ive played so many mmos since but could guard damage be parried on live?

I don't think so.

You most certainly could.

Telen wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pmI even say that earlier Pen. It wouldn't matter which way you put them around. Being multiplicative reduces the weight of the second check. Being able to both push any damage source to a guard as melee and parry any guard damage from any source makes parry a really strong choice. Considering that block is lower and costlier because its an avoidance for all damage types while guard turns damage into parryable damage makes guard and parry have a nice little relationship going on. Thats why the guard change happened.

What?

The guard change happened because someone bypassed all checks and did a change he doesnt even know why he did it on the first place, they gave us an explanation, it wasnt this, now you are just making things up as to why they did it.

And block is more expensive in return ratio because, news flash, is much better at avoiding all kinds of damage than parry and parry is the only thing 2h tanks are able to use to avoid guard damage, thats is by design. You could always parry guard damage on live, just like here.

So far i read multiple "totally, this is why guys" reasons as to why they did the change and "parry is easier to get than block" may take the cake for the stupidest one.

tazdingo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm can a smart person pls answer whether or not ws/wil/init actually contributes to your avoidance/guard dmg avoidance anymore because post to post people are saying completely opposite things about this unchecked and oh heck i don't know what to believe anymore

Its has no stat associations. Its just damage.

bloodi wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 pm What?

The guard change happened because someone bypassed all checks and did a change he doesnt even know why he did it on the first place, they gave us an explanation, it wasnt this, now you are just making things up as to why they did it.

And block is more expensive in return ratio because, news flash, is much better at avoiding all kinds of damage than parry and parry is the only thing 2h tanks are able to use to avoid guard damage, thats is by design. You could always parry guard damage on live, just like here.

So far i read multiple "totally, this is why guys" reasons as to why they did the change and "parry is easier to get than block" may take the cake for the stupidest one.

Were talking about guard damage not all damage. Block is superior because of its all type avoidance.
Guard though turns all damage into melee. Overriding that advantage for block. So parry is equal for guarding.
But because avoidance is multiplicative then having both reduces the weight of each.
So all things being equal where guard is concerned 2h get more bang for their buck.

Telen wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pmConsidering that block is lower and costlier because its an avoidance for all damage types while guard turns damage into parryable damage makes guard and parry have a nice little relationship going on. Thats why the guard change happened.

The guard change happened because the person (people?) who made it has no clue about small scale. Let's be real. If someone is offended by this, so be it.

Moving on: sure, it is easier to stack high amounts of parry than it is to stack high amounts of block. It is also easier to focus the 2H tank in small scale or even a 6v6 (i have seen it several times, good and bad players). In SCs in particular i have seen BWs/Sorcs making 2H tanks explode; I assume this does not happen in 6v6 since, last time i checked, no one brought casters to those fights. In any case this is why i laugh when people think HtL is "meh" for small scale and assume it is a skill only used for RvR. They completely ignore the fact that it increases the TANK's dodge and disrupt by 45% (i bet my ass they think it is only 15% like how it works on others).

Ooops sorry for derailing guys, i just remembered OP only talked about mitigating guard damage. I guess he wants to be wrong in one topic only and not several.

Telen wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:45 pm Were talking about guard damage not all damage. Block is superior because of its all type avoidance.
Guard though turns all damage into melee. Overriding that advantage for block. So parry is equal for guarding.
But because avoidance is multiplicative then having both reduces the weight of each.
So all things being equal where guard is concerned 2h get more bang for their buck.

Yes telen, you are talking guard damage but there is no RR option for "parry but just for guard damage", you pick them and you get them for both, you dont talk about how one is better in return ration and forgeet the fact that one of them is also much better at avoiding all kinds of damage, not just guard damage, thats why its more expensive.

And for the umptieth time, having them both just makes snb much better at avoiding guard damage without even taking rr points, because having them both means needing less of each to reach 50%+ avoidance, if they were equal, the disparity between the two would be much worse because block is much better at avoiding damage than parry when its not just guard damage.

The fact that you are trying to say that a good design and once again, its by design and was like this on live, is "imbalanced" because you dont seem to understand that 2h are still tanks and thus, need to avoid guard damage, is really unneerving, you pick something that is a fantastic idea, the fact that tanks can go 2h, forego defenses when they dont need them for a slight damage increase while still performing their role, its a great design but you lot are convinced that 2h tanks are acutally dps and this is broken.

Seriously, people like you is why we cannot have nice things, you look at them and start crying murder just because you dont undestand why are they like that at all.

tazdingo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm can a smart person pls answer whether or not ws/wil/init actually contributes to your avoidance/guard dmg avoidance anymore because post to post people are saying completely opposite things about this unchecked and oh heck i don't know what to believe anymore

Its a check primary stat vs def stat.done with a subtraction

If your def stat is higher than the primary then you get some small % of avoidance.
For exemple 700 int vs 1000 willp you get disrupt based on the diff, so 300 willp worth of disrupt% .

Thats why stack def stats is not worth in most sich since it's unlikely enemy will have it less than yours. Again depend from what you want. If you want parry on guard, easy access to wep skill came in handy because thats not an attack made by an enemy but by your own guard skill and so the primary stat is always 1 or zero and you have no malus to def stats such willp/ini /wep skill

This is another controversial point which could get some alternative test on 2h tanks change the source of the attack from guard to enemy could mean loose a good chuck of parry for exemple because wep skill would not be usefull for that anymore. But one could also arguing thats that exatly like that to allow to spec into an half off stats not strong as strenght but also allow em to guard properly .

Tesq wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:01 pm Thats why stack def stats is not worth in most sich since it's unlikely enemy will have it less than yours. Again depend from what you want. If you want parry on guard, easy access to wep skill came in handy because thats not an attack made by an enemy but by your own guard skill and so the primary stat is always 1 or zero and you have no malus to def stats such willp/ini /wep skill

This is another controversial point which could get some alternative test on 2h tanks change the source of the attack from guard to enemy could mean loose a good chuck of parry for exemple because wep skill would not be usefull for that anymore. But one could also arguing thats that exatly like that to allow to spec into an half off stats not strong as strenght but also allow em to guard properly .

ooh that's interesting. does anyone know some estimate for what ws in high numbers would do for your guard dmg? so it does nothing vs a dps with str capped, but vs this "1 stat" guarded attack how much effective parry would say 800 WS give you?

tazdingo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:18 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:01 pm Thats why stack def stats is not worth in most sich since it's unlikely enemy will have it less than yours. Again depend from what you want. If you want parry on guard, easy access to wep skill came in handy because thats not an attack made by an enemy but by your own guard skill and so the primary stat is always 1 or zero and you have no malus to def stats such willp/ini /wep skill

This is another controversial point which could get some alternative test on 2h tanks change the source of the attack from guard to enemy could mean loose a good chuck of parry for exemple because wep skill would not be usefull for that anymore. But one could also arguing thats that exatly like that to allow to spec into an half off stats not strong as strenght but also allow em to guard properly .

ooh that's interesting. does anyone know some estimate for what ws in high numbers would do for your guard dmg? so it does nothing vs a dps with str capped, but vs this "1 stat" guarded attack how much effective parry would say 800 WS give you?

It always gives you 25%. You just need more than 4 WS and it will start to give you 25% which is also a cap, it won’t give you more.

DanielWinner wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:38 pm

tazdingo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:18 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:01 pm Thats why stack def stats is not worth in most sich since it's unlikely enemy will have it less than yours. Again depend from what you want. If you want parry on guard, easy access to wep skill came in handy because thats not an attack made by an enemy but by your own guard skill and so the primary stat is always 1 or zero and you have no malus to def stats such willp/ini /wep skill

This is another controversial point which could get some alternative test on 2h tanks change the source of the attack from guard to enemy could mean loose a good chuck of parry for exemple because wep skill would not be usefull for that anymore. But one could also arguing thats that exatly like that to allow to spec into an half off stats not strong as strenght but also allow em to guard properly .

ooh that's interesting. does anyone know some estimate for what ws in high numbers would do for your guard dmg? so it does nothing vs a dps with str capped, but vs this "1 stat" guarded attack how much effective parry would say 800 WS give you?

It always gives you 25%. You just need more than 4 WS and it will start to give you 25% which is also a cap, it won’t give you more.

oh. that's less interesting